Emily Ladau
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Kyle Khachadurian
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Emily Ladau
Hi, I’m Emily Ladau.
Kyle Khachadurian
And I’m Kyle khachadurian.
Emily Ladau
And you’re listening to another episode of The Accessible Stall.
Kyle Khachadurian
What are we going to talk about today, Emily?
Emily Ladau
When did you start doing that was such a rhythm to it.
Kyle Khachadurian
I just do it differently every time and hopes that no one would notice. But now you’ve called attention to it. And now everyone will notice.
Emily Ladau
And now it’s just weird and awkward.
Kyle Khachadurian
Yep. What are we talking about today?
Emily Ladau
So it’s actually been a while since we’ve recorded so we have a little bit of story time. And we’re going to talk a little bit about some media representation. And I’m sure it’s there’s probably some other fun things to pepper in there along the way. So I think it’s a good lineup.
Kyle Khachadurian
Nice. So do you want to start?
Emily Ladau
I mean, how does one even start with this story?
Kyle Khachadurian
Well, we were at a food festival. I don’t know. Do you remember the name of it. The uh…
Emily Ladau
It was like a food truck–
Kyle Khachadurian
It was a bunch of food trucks in a parking lot in New York City. And it was a festival. And Emily and I was there with her boyfriend. And we were having a grand old time. And we thought it would be best to divide and conquer. So while Emily and her boyfriend were getting disgusting chips and guac, I thought it would be great to get some ice cream. Now, unbeknownst to me, someone let Emily cut the line.
Emily Ladau
I feel like you’re not telling this story well anymore. You started off good, but now I have to take over.
Kyle Khachadurian
Go ahead.
Emily Ladau
Okay, so first of all, you missed the part where we divided and conquered. So like, Eli was also not there.
Kyle Khachadurian
Oh, I forgot he wasn’t there to this guy
Emily Ladau
that’s like central to the story. So basically, this guy comes up to me and is like, are you by yourself? And I’m just like, waiting for my guacamole. And I’m like, Yeah, I am. And then he said, Oh, do you want to join me in the line? I’m much further up in you. And so I was like, Are you sure? He was like Yeah. And so I joined him towards the front of the line. And I thought he was just taking pity on me because wheelchair.
And so he thinks the people behind me for letting me cut the line. And then all of a sudden Kyle
comes flailing over to me. Ice cream sundae in hand.
And rams a spoon of ice cream in my mouth.
Kyle Khachadurian
I very romantically fed it to you.
Emily Ladau
I don’t think that was how that went.
Kyle Khachadurian
It was not.
Emily Ladau
So jams a spoonful of ice cream into my mouth. And it’s like here taste this! And I’m like, oh, that, that’s delicious. And then two seconds later, Eli walks back over and I’m like, Hey babe, I’m this guy who just let me cut the line, like points at himself and kind of looks at me funny, and then looks at Eli funny, and then looks at you funny, and then gets the dirtiest angriest look on his face.
Kyle Khachadurian
Didn’t you say Oh, no, I’m not talking to you!
Emily Ladau
Yeah, yeah, I was like, I’m not talking to you. And then I was like, oh, and they’re not getting guacamole. Don’t worry, just me because I thought he was like mad that more people were cutting the line or something.
Um, then he looks at the two people behind me and he’s like, sorry, I guess because now there’s more people who would cut the line. But then he kept glaring at us and giving us dirty looks. And when it was very clear that he wasn’t going to get to talk to me. He turned around and found another woman to start talking to, which leads us to the conclusion that this had nothing to do with the wheelchair, and everything to do with the fact that he was trying to hit on me, which I’m not sure I believe but Kyle and Eli say that’s absolutely what happened.
Kyle Khachadurian
He was totally hitting on you.
Or he’s just the saltiest person. Like he can’t do his good deed because it also helps the other two people that were with you. He was like, No, no, my good deed is only supposed to be for her. Not for the two of you.
Emily Ladau
I mean, the shade though. I don’t think there’s anything that is um
I can’t how… what an alternative for “something blocking”?
Kyle Khachadurian
It’s another kind of thing I can’t say.
Emily Ladau
Um, let’s just say…
Kyle Khachadurian
I’ll just put a rooster noise here. She was being, or we were [rooster noise] blocking her.
Emily Ladau
Yeah. And
Kyle Khachadurian
Or him rather.
Emily Ladau
Yeah, it had nothing to do with me. I was living in my ignorance waiting for my guacamole, which wasn’t even very good. Which is depressing, because that was a long line and an awkward situation.
Kyle Khachadurian
And it was hot.
Factors that do not mix well.
Emily Ladau
Anyway, so sometimes you think it’s a wheelchair perk. Sometimes you think someone’s taking pity on you. And sometimes they’re just trying to hit on you. And it’s real weird. I highly recommend having two men dote on you at once to stop that situation or real fast.
Kyle Khachadurian
And the best part is like I didn’t even know it was happening. I was just coming over with my ice cream because I was so hot and sweaty. And I was like here Emily have some because it’s hot. You’re hot and sweaty. So here, and this was all going on. And she like informed me when it was way too late. Like the spoon was already in her mouth. And she’s desperately trying to tell me like there’s a guy hey,
that’s me doing Emily with a spoon in her mouth. But it was super awkward.
Emily Ladau
Anyway, can everyone else please tell me if you think he was hitting on me or this was just like a taking pity on the wheelchair girl situation.
Kyle Khachadurian
Okay, my argument is, why would he be salty? If he was just taking pity on you? Was he really upset that you had friends?
Emily Ladau
I mean, maybe I don’t know, like my mom. Because of course, I told my mother that was like, well, you lied to him. You told him you were by yourself. And I was like, I was by myself. When I told him I was by myself.
Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah. And you stayed that way for a while. Like we were gone for a fair amount of time.
Emily Ladau
Yeah, like I was alone. I did not realize that he meant like, did you come here by yourself?
Kyle Khachadurian
Screw that guy
Emily Ladau
Do you come here often to the guacamole truck?
Kyle Khachadurian
Him and his silly hair.
Emily Ladau
My God.
Anyway, so yeah, I just really want other people’s opinions on the situation. And I wish that I had like a GoPro in my shirt or something recording all this so that people could tell–like told me what was going on.
Kyle Khachadurian
We should equip you with one every time we go out somewhere.
Emily Ladau
I think that’s what we’re going to have to do.
Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah, you can put it out as like extra Patreon content. The Emily cam.
Emily Ladau
Okay, so anyway, that wraps that up wheelchair perk or getting hit on? Please sound off in the comments section.
Kyle Khachadurian
And in other news…
Emily Ladau
Media representation of disability is still subpar.
Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah, it is what I would call on a less generous day, hot trash.
Emily Ladau
So this morning, I had to wake up very early. And the first thing I do before I get out of bed is check my phone, which is horrible. I should probably stop that.
Why are you raising your hand?
Kyle Khachadurian
Because the first thing you do after you wake up is you blow your nose.
Emily Ladau
Okay, fair.
The first thing I do after I wake up is blow my nose. The second thing I do after I wake up is check my phone. And every morning I make the mistake of going on Twitter, and finding something to get angry about because there’s always something going on with ableism and exclusion and lack of representation. And this morning did not disappoint. So at like 6:30 in the morning, when I really should have been getting ready to leave my house for the day, I was instead in a pile on my bed angrily tweeting at the Hollywood Reporter because they released an article highlighting 50 agents of change empowering diverse voices in Hollywood. And not a single one of them, who’s on that list, has a disability. And
look, okay, I get it. There’s a lot of diversity issues in Hollywood.
But disability if diversity is an international thing. And it’s
very clearly not only eliminating an entire part of the population, but completely ignoring the fact that disability can be part of an identity while also being another minority. And I just feel like how many more times in Hollywood gonna pat themselves on the back for being so inclusive and then completely exclude disability.
Kyle Khachadurian
I agree. I mean, I always found like Hollywood inclusive it to be a bit of a sham. Anyway, not to sound too cynical, right? But it’s a whole bunch of like multi millionaire like, upper class 1% American making movies for us plebeians, and they’re like, Oh, we shouldn’t you know, I don’t know, I’m not saying it’s not authentic, because obviously authentic representation anywhere is good to a point kind of, more on that later. It always struck me as sort of like, pandering ish. But I guess maybe that also is like, how it’s done.
Emily Ladau
I kind of feel like it’s either pandering, or it’s ignored completely. And people still have not seem to grasp on to that happy medium, where it’s just like, yes, we know, this is what the audience wants. And we know this is what people want. But also, this is actually genuine. And so I called out
one of the editors from The Hollywood Reporter, and I was like, this is the best you could do, because she tweeted that she vetted the list along with her colleagues for months. And I was like, and no one in that time thought to include disability. So she tweeted me back and she was like, Oh, well, here’s another article talking about diversity in casting. So it has one measly mention of disability. And it’s talking about someone non disabled, patting themselves on the back for hiring an actress who actually has a disability.
Kyle Khachadurian
Hoo-rah!
Emily Ladau
And I was just like, that’s a bad answer. When someone tells you to do better you don’t say look, but we sort of kind of maybe but not really sort of a little bit did
Kyle Khachadurian
come on, I don’t know. representations Funny, isn’t it?
Emily Ladau
Explain funny to me
Kyle Khachadurian
Well, it’s not haha funny. But on the one hand, you have Garrett from Superstore, played by an able bodied man, right? He’s a wheelchair user in the show. And it doesn’t affect his character in any way. It’s not even part of his personality. And that is something that Hollywood and media in general loves to do. When a character is a member of some kind of marginalized group, like a gay character. They always make him like, a little bit flamboyant. So you know he’s the gay one. They always do that. And they don’t do that with Garrett. And that’s one of my favorite things about him now, is it weird and sort of kind of wrong that he’s played by an able bodied guy? Well, yeah, of course. But it is so refreshing not to have entire plots and subplots and storylines, just revolving around the fact that he sits down to get around, unlike some other authentic, authentic…
Emily Ladau
We’re looking at you, Speechless!
Kyle Khachadurian
Well Speechless. Okay, so Speechless? Yeah, it’s the prime example of that. But the reason I will give Speechless a kind of a little bit of a pass up in a in a in the middle most vague way, is because Speechless doesn’t ever pretend to be anything else. Right?
Emily Ladau
Fair
Kyle Khachadurian
Speechless is about this kid in this wheelchair in this life in this family? And that’s that, is it over the top? and ridiculous. Yes, but it does what it says on the tin. And on the opposite end of that you have things like Special, which, Oh, God, you know, I wanted to like it. I really did. And I really
liked the first episode, and then it just got worse from there.
Emily Ladau
Do we need a spoiler alert?
Kyle Khachadurian
Yes, spoiler alert for Special. This is your spoiler warning, the whole thing is two hours on Netflix, I recommend that you watch it if only to join the conversation. It’s worth your time, if you have any sort of interest in disability representation, or media representation in general, even if you’re not disabled.
Emily Ladau
Okay, so I watched it, but it’s already been a little while since I watched it. And it’s not sticking with me that well, which should honestly say something about it. But the long and short of it is that Kyle watched it and had a very different reaction than I did, initially. But upon hearing critiques of it, and kind of sitting with my own thoughts about it. I’m starting to understand why certain people are not a fan. But I’m kind of I’m curious why. Well, I guess I just gave away your point of view. Sorry.
Kyle Khachadurian
No, it’s fine. So So I will start with positives. I like that. Ryan O’Connell has CP. Absolutely. But I will say just as a forefront before I start that this show has taught me that authentic representation means absolutely nothing if there’s zero substance behind it. And Special is exactly that. So there are a few positives though. The fact that has CP is nice. The sex scenes graphic as they were, very nice. The fact that he’s also gay, I suppose is nice, although I’m not gay. So I can’t really speak to that. But sure, more representation. And I rather enjoyed the very unhealthy relationship that he had with his mother. A lot of people were harping on the show for that being unrealistic. And I suppose to a lot of people, myself included, it is unrealistic. But I can tell you, I know a lot of people would CP with parents just like that who have that dynamic. And is that unhealthy? Yes. But I I loved the fact that it was there. I love the fact that it was in the forefront. And that was all good. Here’s what I didn’t like.
Everything–
Emily Ladau
Well wait can I? Oh, yeah. Sorry. You say what you didn’t like? What I did, like, and then
Kyle Khachadurian
This is your show too Sorry.
Emily Ladau
No, no, I don’t need to stop you because I need to get a word in edgewise. But just because like, I think it would be good if we were both focusing on the positives. So for me, I really liked his friendship with the woman whose name I’m already forgetting
Kyle Khachadurian
Kim.
I love Kim, Kim was the best part of the show.
Emily Ladau
I think that his friendship with Kim showed a dynamic that I have often seen between me and my friends that I’m reluctant to divulge things initially, but then recognizing that it’s for the best to be completely open and honest. And granted, I don’t have that with my close friends now. But it certainly is something where I start out more guarded. So you know, I thought that was a very realistic friendship. And then also his boss at Eggwoke.
Kyle Khachadurian
That’s a good name,
Emily Ladau
Which is a ridiculous name for a company!
Kyle Khachadurian
That’s a great name. Yeah.
Emily Ladau
But anyway, there’s this moment. And tell me if you feel differently, where it’s his boss, who calls him out for internalized ableism, him grapple with that, because he goes on a date with a deaf guy and find it so utterly disappointing.
Kyle Khachadurian
Oh, yeah,
that was like the best scene in the whole thing. I don’t know why I didn’t mention that, that that that happens.
Emily Ladau
Because the problem is that there are a bunch of diamonds in the rough among
Kyle Khachadurian
A whole lot of rough. Yeah.
Emily Ladau
So yeah, so I think that there were really, really good plot points and commentaries on disability, and ableism, and how people perceive the disability experience. You know, and I suppose I found it amusing how he pretends to have been pretends that he became this way, quote, unquote, because he was hit by a car and runs with it. And I think I find that sort of an interesting exploration of denial of disability as part of your identity. So I know we’re a little bit all over the place. But
we would be remiss if we didn’t point out that there were positives.
Kyle Khachadurian
I liked and I didn’t like that. Right. So on the one hand, hiding your own disability from you is something that a friend of mine wrote a piece on this, but I echo the sentiments that I don’t know how I would have took that if this came out when I was 15. Right. I might have done that. If that was the first kind of “me” that I saw, I might have internalized that it was that you were supposed to hide who you are. And I don’t know. And that’s not okay. Right.
Emily Ladau
But he resolved it at the end.
Kyle Khachadurian
Well, yeah, that was my “but”, and also, it was an interesting sort of, sort of take on how society is so much more accepting of an able bodied person who becomes temporarily disabled or even sometimes permanently disabled by something happening to them later in life, rather than being born this way. So that’s an interesting dynamic that the show touched on. And unfortunately, I wish I did more I really do that was interesting to me. And it, it was central to the show, and it didn’t do much with it.
Emily Ladau
I think the problem is that the show is only 15 minutes per episode, you can’t really get that deep into some of the more important things.
Kyle Khachadurian
Right. That was another thing. So by the so the character is a total for d*** brains, and by the time he has any kind of character, but he was designed that way. That’s um, that’s not my personal opinion, although it also is, but he was written that way. And by the time he has any kind of character development at all, the show ends. So it’s kind of like, I don’t know, it’s just like
Emily Ladau
On a rather depressing note, I might add,
Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah, very much.
Emily Ladau
I mean, I’m glad that he has a reckoning with his mother.
Kyle Khachadurian
But there were so many little jokes and jabs and stuff that, that were hate this word problematic that you could sort of see what he was doing. But they just didn’t land, I’m not going to list them all. But there were just so many little things that landed on the wrong side of funny, but I will say, I like that it’s there. But I will say this something, again, that a friend of mine said that when you are the first of your kind, you have this kind of responsibility to
represent yourself well, in a way that goes against stereotypes. And of course, while you shouldn’t have to do that, we don’t live in that world where you don’t have to do that. But yeah, that’s my take on, on Special. Also, he calls himself r******* in his book. So perhaps all of my problems with this show is just that it’s horribly written, because he’s the sole writer, and he just doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Emily Ladau
Yeah, I mean,
everybody was all hyped up about the show, because it was like, oh, we’re finally going to see ourselves on screen. And in some ways, I did. In some ways, I did see myself on screen
Kyle Khachadurian
Really?
I did not see myself on screen at all. And it’s so funny that you say that,
Emily Ladau
I guess, in some of the internal struggle and grappling. But, you know, on the whole, how much am I really gonna relate to a gay guy was CP, when I’m a straight woman with Larsen Syndrome, you know, like, but something deeper than that was missing for me. I still don’t really feel like I saw myself in any sort of meaningful way, and definitely not in
a way that I think is going to lead to continued meaningful change in the sphere of disability representation. I just am worried that Special is something that was kind of not actually that special, and maybe like, will fall little flat. And I just, I wanted more, I needed more. And I feel weird saying that because like, Yeah, I know, I’m not the show writer, you know, but I just feel
like something is missing. Something is hollow.
Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah,
cohesion that’s missing like the, you know, the episode where he hires a man to like, put together a chair because he can’t face his mother and tell her that he can’t do something, only then to have her literally shovel his s*** out of a toilet. Like I just don’t understand, like, those two things should not happen back to back or frankly, at all.
Emily Ladau
Really? Because I saw that as reminding him that he can’t quite be so holier than thou and high and mighty in the way that he talks to her
Kyle Khachadurian
Okay. I’ll give you that. But then how come he doesn’t like, he doesn’t learn anything from that experience until like the very last two minutes of the very last episode. I don’t know. I guess the more I talk, the more I realized that a lot of my problems are just with with how the show is put together?
Emily Ladau
Well, I think yeah, I mean, it’s missing a lot of the key lessons that you would want to see come out of the show,
Kyle Khachadurian
especially in a sitcom. Like that’s the whole… I don’t know
Emily Ladau
But what can you do with 2 hours?
Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah no, that’s true That’s true.
That’s true. I will say the, you know, like Emily said, She’s a straight woman with Larsen Syndrome, not a gay man with CP I’m a straight man with CP. And I can tell you that the one scene or the two scenes I loved was when he tried and failed to get up from the bench. Because he just couldn’t find his balance. That was nice. And I loved the the kiss scene between him and the guy in the pool house, where he realizes that he’s like an inexperienced virgin and doesn’t know what he’s doing. And so he just stops.
Emily Ladau
Oh, I liked the scene where he actually has sex for the first time with the sex worker.
Kyle Khachadurian
The sex scenes were great. I don’t like that he made him, that Ryan O’Connell made Ryan with no last name in the show a virgin loser at 28 years old, though. I mean, I get it, because there are a lot of people with CP or virgin losers at 28 years old, I suppose. But no one I know. And not me.
Emily Ladau
Yeah, it plays directly into the stereotype.
Kyle Khachadurian
Right.
Emily Ladau
And it didn’t really do very much to fix the stereotype either. And well, I mean, there is that kiss with that guy, but they don’t even look explain that, because he’s supposed to be in a relationship with someone else. So the whole thing is just too messy to be good.
Kyle Khachadurian
Now.
You know, I used to be one of those people that will sort of that were like, you know, representation, like it doesn’t fix anything. But it certainly adds a layer of depth that you would not get with an inauthentic representation of a given character, which is still true. However, what Special taught me like I said earlier, is that that really is only skin deep. And that if you don’t have the personal experience to follow through with it, and authentic represented to people should because that’s what the authenticity is supposed to be for. It. Just I mean, really, like the guy is not an actor, you could have gotten a better results with a guy pretending to have CP! I swear, it was just so disjointed. And on the other hand, I saw The Upside this weekend. Remember, we were all mad at that?
Emily Ladau
I’m still mad at it, but I haven’t seen it.
Kyle Khachadurian
No, no, yeah, there’s plenty to be met for the authentic representation. And Bryan Cranston, who I love. He’s a great actor, but his response of saying, hey, look, man, I just did I just got picked for a role. I don’t know what to tell you. Like I didn’t think I mean, if he was going to do it anyway, I wouldn’t have responded like that. Personally.
Emily Ladau
Yeah.
Kyle Khachadurian
But I will say, often authentic representation aside because you’re not going to find it in that movie. It was there were some moments of that movie that did turn a lot of negative disability stereotypes on its head, like a lot of the jokes didn’t… They weren’t because Philip who’s the quadriplegic in the movie, they weren’t because he was disabled. A lot of the jokes stemmed from Dell play by Kevin Hart, his never being a PCA before. A lot of the joke stemmed from the fact that Philip was a multi millionaire. By the way, there was a disability disability disabled guy with who was a multimillionaire that was also very cool. And Dell as a working class, or even poor person who has never ever seen that amount of money in his life. There was a lot of that where it’s like, these are where our classes collide. and here we can find common ground. And that’s all welling
Emily Ladau
And racial dynamics.
Kyle Khachadurian
That’s right. Because, yeah, Kevin Hart is black. And I think the PCA also was is real life. They, you know, oh, yeah. That too. And that’s actually
yeah. And that actually plays a significant part in the story as well. And it’s nice. The ending was a little feelgoody.
But not,
Emily Ladau
But he doesn’t want to kill himself like Me Before You right?
Kyle Khachadurian
Actually. So that,
okay, spoilers kind of, I’m going to spoil one scene. So, one day, they’re on his balcony, and there’s one of them smoking doesn’t matter which one of those smoking? And Kevin Hart like, asks him like, hey, look, not to be rude or nothing? But do you ever think of offing yourself? Because obviously, Dell has no idea what it’s like to be disabled? And I don’t like that question. But as somebody I can, I can totally see why someone would arrive there, given the way that society thinks of us, right? And he says, No, you know, even though the pain is, you know, insurmountable, nothing compares to losing my wife. And that’s the kind of pain that makes me want to think of doing that. And he was like, Look, you know, because his wife dies, and she was already dead. So that’s not a spoiler. But he was saying like this, yes, having this disability like sucks. But losing someone you love is way worse. And so No, he doesn’t want to kill himself. The moments in The Upside were smaller, but more poignant than anything special did, which is ridiculous. It should not be that way. But that’s how I felt. But having said that, obviously, if the guy was really disabled, if Bryan Cranston was played by Bryan Cranston was played if the Philip character was played by the same guy, that would be better. But I would honestly say that The Upside is worth your two hours more than Special is. I really would.
Emily Ladau
So here’s what it all comes down to. for me. I have a very, very hard time reconciling in my head, my appreciation of portions portrayals of disability when I know that they’re inauthentic, but they’re so on the nose. You know, Garrett, from Superstore, being the prime example of that. always makes me laugh, always. But then I still get my knickers in a knot over the fact that he doesn’t actually have a disability. And there’s a movie. It’s an older movie,
Kyle Khachadurian
Margarita with a Straw?
Emily Ladau
Oh, I love that one. But no, that wasn’t what I was.
A Music Within? It’s called? It has Charlie Sheen. I think is that who it is
Kyle Khachadurian
Something
like that.
Emily Ladau
Michael Sheen, Michael. You know, Charlie Sheen. Charlie Sheen’s the bonker’s one, I think Yeah, but it’s definitely Michael Sheen. But anyway, so he plays a man named Richard Pimentel. And he was disabled during the war in Vietnam. And so there’s this whole story about all of the situations that he goes through to try to gain access. I’m not even retelling this right. Okay. Hold on. It’s been so long. Okay. So Richard loses his hearing, and then befriends a guy who has cerebral palsy.
Kyle Khachadurian
Oh
Emily Ladau
There you go. Okay, that’s it. I don’t want to mess this up. And so having that group of friends, helps Richard to become an advocate for the disability community. And I think that it’s a really great movie. But of course, again, lack of authenticity here. And so,
I struggle, because I think it’s a really good movie that tells a really important story. I don’t like the lack of authenticity. What am I supposed to do? How do I reconcile that in my head? How can I
appreciate it for what it is and call out the problems?
Kyle Khachadurian
just like that? “This was good, but…” you know, critical lenses never heard anybody, but it shouldn’t preclude you for your, from your enjoyment. I forgot the best part. Because I know none of you are actually going to watch The Upside on principle, which is fine. So I’ll just spoil it for you. So Dell, Kevin Hart, who by the way, I also know is cancelled because of a whole other laundry list of problematic reasons, by the way, just so you know, that I’m, that we’re aware of the problems with him. He so Philip, his wheelchair dies, in like the middle of Manhattan, which is super relatable. And
Emily Ladau
Amen to that.
Kyle Khachadurian
in working with Philip Dell learns how to fix wheelchairs. And after his tenure with Philip is over, Dell uses his earnings from his job with Philip to open up a wheelchair repair shop. So like, you know, amen.
Emily Ladau
Okay, I can get into that.
Yeah, like, it’s yeah, exactly. It’s just one of those things.
Kyle Khachadurian
But just seeing those two things so closely together, in time: Special, and The Upside, just really made me realize that like, authentic representation is wonderful. It really is. And we should do more of it. But it really only goes so far. And it does open up a whole, like different can of worms, like Emily said, like, it’s problematic, but it’s good. You know, or this is not problematic. And it’s bad. What do you do?
Emily Ladau
Or can something be both problematic and good?
Kyle Khachadurian
I think so. But it doesn’t mean it’s immune from criticism, right? Like, just because it’s good, doesn’t mean that you’re not allowed to criticize and a lot of people feel that way about, like their favorite movie. And it’s like, No, no, nothing’s… relax. Just the movie.
Emily Ladau
I think
more to the point is that a lot of people feel like that about any sort of disability representation. You know, if it’s authentic, it’s almost like we kind of walk on eggshells around it, because, you know, you don’t want to do anything to foil the progress that’s being made. I mean, not that it’s 100% related. But I feel like I ran into this issue back during the 2016 elections, where I called out Hillary Clinton. Yeah, yeah. So she made a whole speech that was centered on disability, but I still felt like she could have done better. And it was sort of this very inspirational tone that lacked any real policy or substance. And I called her out on it on NPR, of course, I guess, you know, I was asking for the feedback. But I got feedback that was like, how dare you speak down about Hillary Clinton, you’re going to help Donald Trump get elected.
Kyle Khachadurian
That was you?!
You’re the reason we’re in this mess, Emily?!
Emily Ladau
Oh, definitely. me. Sorry, everyone. But like, I just don’t believe that I should have to exist in a world where I can’t recognize that my fav is problematic.
Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah. Couldn’t have said it better.
But it is hard. Because you know, if you are an outsider, right, or someone who doesn’t know about these things, and you take a cursory glance at Disability Twitter, one of the things that you will see all too often, and for all the right reasons, is that there is a severe lack of representation and we need more of it. And so I can totally see where someone like Ryan O’Connell was coming from, right. He’s like, Oh, I am representation. And he made a show. And that’s great.
Emily Ladau
And kudos to him, because most people don’t get that far.
Kyle Khachadurian
Oh, yeah, I,
yeah, I will give him that much.
But when the show falls, so flat, like I genuinely, genuinely, really, really felt in my heart of hearts, that I have seen better, inauthentic representation. And that is not something that is normal to feel after you see something like that. It’s just not what you’re supposed to feel. And I don’t even want to say I was disappointed. I was just so… whelmed. I was neither over nor underwhelmed. It was like, Okay, that’s it. Like, there it is. It’s a gay dude with CP and his weird relationship with his mom. And that’s what it was supposed to be! But when you’re broadcasting that to millions and millions of homes across the country, and when it’s a whole bunch of people’s first exposure to CP? Do I like that you have to carry a little bit of extra responsibility right with you? Absolutely not. But do you? Yeah. I mean, I was I was talking to this guy. His name is D’Arcee Neal, who you should all go follow on Twitter, by the way. I’ve talked about him three times now. So I should probably name drop him at this point. He is a fantastic doctoral student in disability studies. And yeah, it’s cool guy. And we were talking and I said to him, I’m like, you know, the first black family I saw on TV, right was The Cosby Show. Now I know, Bill Cosby, I know. But when he was doing The Cosby Show he made, he made it a point not to showcase any negative stereotypes about African American people whatsoever, not one, and America fell in love with him and his show. 20 years later, cartoon in Japanese anime style called The Boondocks comes out, right? And it’s it. It cashes in on those stereotypes and it makes fun of itself. It turns those stereotypes on its head by making plot points that revolve around making those stereotypes front and center and absurd. And we have that 20 year sort of conditioning with shows like The Cosby Show and The Fresh Prince of Bel Air to know. Unless you’re, you know, racist, that like, Oh, this show is parodying itself. But Special is akin to the boondocks. And if, if that was what we saw, first, when we should have been seeing something like The Cosby Show, there is no Cosby Show for disability. That’s what this show is doing.
Emily Ladau
Okay, counterpoint here, though, is that I don’t think that we’re in a generation anymore, where The Cosby Show of disability would be acceptable or well received, because people would call it too cliche, and they wouldn’t watch it, it would get canceled after one season.
Kyle Khachadurian
No, we would say that the people who don’t know a damn thing about disability, I think would love it. And I think we would be right in saying that. But we’re not who it’s for!
Emily Ladau
So is that what Speechless is trying to be, then?
Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah. And I think Speechless is way
better. I mean, I can go on and on about this, the problems I have with Speechless, but I don’t say anything about it, because I think it fulfills a niche. And I think it deserves to exist, I don’t think Special deserves to exist.
Emily Ladau
No, see, I think that Special deserves to exist. But I think that its niche within a niche. And that becomes a problem, because I’m not sure that America was ready for it yet. And maybe we’re not giving people enough credit. But quite frankly, I just think that the way that the show was hyped up as being so incredibly revolutionary for disability, you need to live up to that hype, because we’re a pretty gosh, darn big community. You know, we love our statistics, yeah, it is 1 in 4 now. So anyway, all that said, I think that we should do our final takeaways.
Kyle Khachadurian
My final takeaway is that,
if nothing else, shows like Special are a great example of the exceptions of things that would say we as a community sort of took as a rule, as great as authentic representation is, it really isn’t everything. And that’s important to recognize when you’re sort of going into a new piece of media. Having said that authentic representation, it’s a great piece. But it’s not the whole puzzle, and it should not be treated like that.
Emily Ladau
I think that we need to give Special a chance. But I also think that we’ve already given it a chance. And I don’t mean, us, I mean, the royal “we”. And it just seems like it didn’t quite hit the mark, we were hoping for it to hit. So my final takeaway is more of a final call to action, which is that we need to be the representation that we want to see. And if Ryan O’Connell can do it, I think someone else can do it. And I think they can do it better.
Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah. And to that point, though, I mean, not to drag this on, but I wouldn’t fault him for being that I just think he did it wrong. I mean, you know…
Emily Ladau
And that’s the way we see it.
Kyle Khachadurian
This has been another episode of The Accessible Stall.
I am Kyle, I think she’s Emily, I believe.
Emily Ladau
That’s me!
Kyle Khachadurian
And thanks for listening. If you’d like to support the show, give us a like on Facebook or follow on Twitter. Hey, donate $1 on patreon. At patreon.com/theaccessiblestall. even just $1 a month ensures that current and future episodes of The Accessible Stalll remain accessible.
Emily Ladau
Thanks so much for
listening.
Kyle Khachadurian
And might we say, you look great today.