Emily Ladau:
Hi, I’m Emily Ladau.

Kyle Khachadurian:
And I’m Kyle Khachadurian.

Emily Ladau:
Oh, there was a different rhythm to that today.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes, switching it up.

Emily Ladau:
Anyhow, you are listening to another episode of The Accessible Stall.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Emily?

Emily Ladau:
Hi.

Kyle Khachadurian:
What are we going to talk about today?

Emily Ladau:
I have to say, this episode was pretty much all your idea. So how do you feel if I turn it back around on you and ask you what we’re going to talk about today?

Kyle Khachadurian:
It honestly makes me a little bit uncomfortable. No. Just because I’ve only ever done it twice in the history of the show.

Emily Ladau:
[inaudible 00:00:43].

Kyle Khachadurian:
I found myself in a situation where I very quickly realized that a lot of disabled people, or at least these ones, were not in the disability community in the way that I assume that a lot of disabled people who are online are. And I just had an existential crisis over it, to the point where I was like, “Emily, we need to talk about this right now.”

Emily Ladau:
Okay. Yeah. I actually think this is a super important thing to talk about. And when Kyle brought it up to me, I was like, “Wow.” I honestly hadn’t thought about it as much as I should think about it. But every time we use generalizations like disability community or we talk about disabled people, I feel like we make these assumptions that we’re talking about a particular subset, or rather, we are talking about a particular subset, but we make an assumption that we’re talking about everybody.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. And there was one moment for me when I realized… Because I took it for granted. I thought that if you were a person with a disability online, whether or not you even cared about disability advocacy, I thought you would at least recognize big-ish names or know the vocabulary du jour.
And the moment for me was when somebody referred to themselves as handicapped. And look, refer to yourself however you want. We’ve done that to death. Having said that, I don’t think there’s anyone in the “disability community” that we know that would do that.
And I’m not about to tell anyone how to identify themselves, but that was when I was like, “Oh my God, are these the regular people?” And we are not. We’re terminally online, professional people. And I was reminded of the Initiating the Uninitiated episode, but it’s a little bit more than that because these people aren’t well-meaning adults or just regular disabled adults.
These are people who have a community online and who are… I say are, but who I would assume would be either in the space or at least familiar with it. And the fact that they weren’t blew my mind. It really did.
And I’m not saying just because you’re disabled online, you have to know who you are and who someone like Alice Wong is. I’m not saying that at all. I’m just saying that I assumed you’d have a clue.
It might not be your cup of tea to be a professional disabled person. It’s barely mine most days. But I just thought you’d have a baseline knowledge. And I’m not here to shame anybody, but it just was like, wow, I didn’t realize that the bubble that I’m in is smaller than I thought.

Emily Ladau:
Or if anything, I feel like the people who need to feel a little shame right now are the perpetually online disabled people who are like, “Oh, not all disabled people are the same, and disabled people are not a monolith.” But at the same time, we just have these assumptions and expectations that disabled people actually are on the same wavelength.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s the other part of it. I really do believe that disabled people are not a monolith. We’ve said that hundreds of times probably. And yet, in that moment, I realized that I, and by extension, this show, were acting as if we were, even though we were saying that we weren’t. But by having that difference between this part of the community and all these other disabled people over here in this online space, it’s something we take for granted and don’t even realize we’re doing it.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. I definitely always talk about, in theory, the fact that I need to get out of this vacuum, out of this silo, out of this bubble. I’m highly aware of it. And I always tell people, if you’ve met one disabled person, you’ve met one disabled person.
And I can only speak for myself and my own experiences because there’s more than a billion disabled people around the world. I rattle these stats and these talking points off constantly. And yet when it comes down to it, I still find myself thinking about the disability community as a very specific group of people, even though I’m so aware of the fact that that’s not true.
But it’s just that I engage with the same disabled people so frequently, and the same names get thrown around, and the same people get all of these opportunities, and it’s like, I’m guilty of that. I’m guilty of being part of it. I’m guilty of perpetuating it.
And it’s really important, I think, for someone to come in and pop that bubble and be like, “Hey, actually, you say all these things, but you’re really not aware of the fact that a billion disabled people is a whole freaking lot of people.” And that means that the way that you think about disability, the way that you talk about disability is not how everybody else is doing it.
And it does not make them bad, and it does not make them wrong. But because we have been socialized in this bubble of disability activism and disability culture, we are so quick to judge other disabled people who are not habitually online 24/7, professional disabled people.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. And it was so bizarre. It hit me doubly because this is a space for folks with CP. I am so guilty of this because I’m like, oh, when you think of CP… I have very mild CP, right? So if you don’t know about CP, it probably doesn’t look like me. And I know that. I know that. It’s a fact.
But when I meet people who… And it doesn’t matter what, I hate this, but what amount of CP they have. That’s not the point. The point is when I meet a group of people who all have CP, I would at least hope that my experience resonates with some of them, but it didn’t resonate with any of them.
Now, it is entirely possible that this group of CP, the people with CP happen to be who CP affects a lot more. But I know, for a fact, it’s not because I’ve asked around. And it’s just bizarre the different types of people that exist.
And I took for granted, oh, if you have CP, then you know this thing about it. And if you have CP, then you know this thing about it. Because I know this thing about CP and I think it’s common knowledge. And actually, what it is is things that should be common knowledge, in my opinion, but are just not.

Emily Ladau:
There are so many reasons, I think, why different aspects of disability are not common knowledge. I mean, one thing that frustrates me to no end is a lot of the writing out there about disability is really, really heavily full of jargon or it’s very academic, and it completely shuts people out, and yet it’s hypothesizing and analyzing and theorizing about these people. But the people that they’re writing about can’t even access what they’re writing because it’s so full of words that are just inaccessible.
Even if you can access something by going to take out a book, by being online, that doesn’t mean that the language is accessible to you. Or maybe you don’t have internet in the first place. Maybe you don’t have easy access to get to a library in the first place. Honestly, the rabbit hole goes so deep for how much certain parts of the disability community, and I’m counting myself in this, act like we are the ones who are in charge of shaping the discussion and shut out other people from that conversation.

Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s funny you brought up internet. Meanwhile, we have a podcast. And I didn’t even think of that because not only are we doing this on the internet, but also, all of these folks are on the internet. I didn’t even consider that. That’s a whole different layer.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. And it’s one I think we need to talk about because-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Mail the transcripts out on postcards to the people.

Emily Ladau:
Right. But I mean, all of these resources are things that I know about and things that I find out about largely because I cannot help myself, and I still scroll Twitter aimlessly 20 times a day.
And so that’s how I get my information on disability. But at the same time, that’s my particular orbit, and that’s because I have the privilege of having internet. I have the privilege of being connected to certain people. I have the privilege of having an education that has allowed me to engage in a way with certain materials that make them understandable to me.
And these things are not the norm for everybody. But quite frankly, I feel like the very same people who are all about radical access are sometimes the ones who are perpetuating this problem.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Normally, I would love to poke fun and blame them, but honestly, it’s so pervasive. This was an epiphany for me. I didn’t even know I was doing it. And it was so many… It went so deep.
Obviously, you can’t be at the same stage of life as everyone, or even as… You and I are the same age, and we’re at different stages of life. That’s just how life works. There were things that I take for granted in my day-to-day life that I didn’t even think people with my kind of CP or even slightly more or less could and couldn’t do.
And then we got to talking and I realized, how can I reach these people about this thing, I’m gesturing to one side of the screen, this thing over here when their whole life depends on whether or not they can… I’m making this up, this is not a real example, but use a roll-in shower, or if their parent is going to be able to help them get up and get ready?
It’s just as valid, this thing, my thing, the thing over here that I wanted to talk about with these people. But their life, they have much more immediate barriers to access than I even realized. And that made me realize a couple of things. It made me realize how privileged and independent I am, how lucky I am to be this way. That’s thing number one.
But thing number two is we, the big internet disco, have to be a lot better at trying to reach people who… It’s like, yeah, we could talk about privilege and how disabled people are the largest minority and how we have barriers to jobs and physical barriers to access in buildings and stuff.
And that’s true, but when you are a disabled person who is worried about when your next meal is going to come or who is going to help you get dressed in the morning, you’re not thinking about that because you’re just worried about how you’re going to get through the day. It was just a lot.

Emily Ladau:
The thing is, there’s ways to hold space for both. How am I going to get the care that I need? And also, what is the language that I want to use to refer to myself? I’m plenty sure that there’s disabled people who are thinking about both the nuances and the theories.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, yeah, yeah. That’s not what I meant, [inaudible 00:12:36].

Emily Ladau:
No, I know what you mean. I just mean I know that it’s possible to hold both. But I think, and correct me if I’m wrong, what you’re getting at is some of us are railing on the internet about language choice, while other people are literally worried about if they’re going to get the personal care attendant support that they need.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes, exactly. And I’m not saying that one is more important than the other. I’m saying that because one is so much more immediate, even if you might care about the language issue, it’s not pressing in your life. And I’m not saying that both can’t coexist.

Emily Ladau:
And also, the other thing that I’m thinking about too is sometimes we get all wrapped up in being really holier than thou in how we think about and talk about disability among this very online group of disabled people. But in doing that, we’re totally discounting the fact that disabled people who don’t think in the same way that we do can still be doing valid activism.
I mean, I’m going to [inaudible 00:13:46] caveat here. If you are being blatantly ignorant of certain disability-related things and still calling yourself an advocate, then I feel like there is a chance that you’re going to do more harm than good. And I have a specific example of this.
So there is a person who I recently came across on social media, so they are an online person. And they are a wheelchair user. And they believe that the best possible route to educate other people about disability is by having non-disabled people roll around in wheelchairs.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I swear to God, I knew that’s what you were going to say. I don’t know how I knew that. I just had this inkling in the back of my head.

Emily Ladau:
Because it’s probably one of the better examples I can think of because I am not the type of person who’s like, “You are wrong and your life experiences are invalid.” But I am the type of person who is going to say, “Don’t intentionally keep your head in the sand either.” Do you know what I mean? And that goes both ways.
I’m not going to tell you that your experience is invalid. But if you then start to do things that are actively going to cause problems for other disabled people, that’s my line. Live your life how you want to. Identify how you want to. But if you’re going to teach other people about disability and you’re going to do so in a way that proclaims yourself as the expert while actively creating problems for other disabled people, not cool.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Just move out of the way.

Emily Ladau:
But the thing is, I am always willing to give people grace and give people the benefit of the doubt. And so if there are disabled people who are perpetuating a certain narrative of being inspiring or overcoming or whatever, live your life, I guess, but don’t impose that on other disabled people.
So I think what I’m getting at is there’s kind of a line here. I don’t think anyone should impose ourselves on anyone else, but I also think that when the way that you’re living your life is contributing overall to a negative narrative of disability, I have a harder time with that.
Like I’m not going to get mad at you if you say handicapped or special needs, and that’s how you’re more comfortable referring to yourself. But if you’re out there and you’re an inspirational, overcoming motivational speaker who’s like, “I climbed Mount Everest with nobody and [inaudible 00:16:40].”

Kyle Khachadurian:
That person’s probably out there. That person exists. So that actually bothers the hell out of me. Look, live your life, but come on, man. That’s how I feel about that.

Emily Ladau:
I don’t know. Did that make sense how I’m trying to differentiate here?

Kyle Khachadurian:
To me, it does. I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Emily Ladau:
To turn the arrow back in our direction, I think that we have a lot of self-reflection to do as a “community” if we think that we’re really representing everybody in the work that we’re doing.

Kyle Khachadurian:
It was just a light-bulb moment. It was something I took for granted, something that I think we all take for granted, [inaudible 00:17:34].
And then it’s like, well, what if they don’t want to be part of it? And what if they just do have fundamentally different opinions? It’s like, okay, but I want you to know it’s here. I want you to know… That’s the thing. You don’t have to join. It’s not a cult.

Emily Ladau:
Oh my God, that was kind of the direction that I was going to go in. I think we need some better marketing materials. Also, so many of us have had years of being able to adjust to the concept of disability as an identity. Emily 15 years ago and Emily now is a very, very different person.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Kyle, at the beginning of this podcast, was a different person with regard to my disability identity, man. I go back and forth on it all the time. It’s a thing.

Emily Ladau:
That’s true, honestly, if you want to witness a journey.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh my God, yeah. It’s so embarrassing.

Emily Ladau:
No, it’s not.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t think I’m alone. Well, I went through a lot too. I went through a political awakening too, a good one, not a (beep) one. Episode-one me and episode-whatever-this-is me is the same guy, but I learned a lot.

Emily Ladau:
That’s a fair assessment. Yeah. Same person, but learned a lot. And I think that is another thing that comes up for me too is the differences between people who were born with their disabilities versus acquired their disabilities and the culture that you grow up in.
And there’s just so many factors that go into how people choose to engage with the concept of disability. And again, I’m not being blamey here. I am pointing a finger entirely at myself.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, no. We’re not pointing fingers at anyone but us.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah.

Kyle Khachadurian:
It was just bizarre to see, at least for me. The thing is, I thought we were doing a good job. And I’m not saying we’re not. I’m just saying we’re always worried about how we’re going to reach out to disabled people. Meanwhile, there’s this whole segment of disabled people that are just here, who don’t even know this world exists.

Emily Ladau:
Boom. That’s the thing. That’s it. It’s the fact that we are so busy sometimes trying to reach people beyond what we’re calling our community that we’re forgetting about what’s going on in the community.
And I think part of that has to do with the fact that we’re just over here being like, “Hey, what about us?” Obviously, we exist in a world where we have to fight for non-disabled people to pay attention to us. But what if disabled people just paid attention to each other?
And I say this knowing full well that there are plenty of disabled people who pay attention to each other, and there are plenty of disabled people who are working on all kinds of radical mutual aid and who are really focused on that internal community-building.
So I’m not saying that either one of us are having some kind of revelation here. I’m just saying more of that, more of let’s focus on each other and welcoming people into the fold of a broader community, rather than just using the term “disability community” without actually embracing what a community is.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Speaking of us, Emily, do you know who today’s sponsor is?

Emily Ladau:
We have a sponsor today?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, it’s us. If you’re willing and able, please support the show at patreon.com/theaccessiblestall. Just $1 a month ensures that all current and future episodes of The Accessible Stall remain what?

Emily Ladau:
Accessible.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s right.

Emily Ladau:
Although counterpoint here, because wouldn’t it be the listeners who are our patrons who are sponsoring us and not that we are our own sponsor?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Okay. Well, that’s a very good point.

Emily Ladau:
Main sponsor is you.

Kyle Khachadurian:
All of you.

Emily Ladau:
This episode is brought to you by the letters Y-O-U.

Kyle Khachadurian:
And the number six.

Emily Ladau:
And the color blue. They don’t do that on Sesame Street. I just felt like saying it.

Kyle Khachadurian:
They don’t? Oh, they don’t do colors. I thought they [inaudible 00:22:04]. Oh, you scared me.

Emily Ladau:
I don’t think [inaudible 00:22:06]. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. They do the number. They do, “This episode was brought to you by the letter A and the number seven.” I think it should also be brought to you by colors. No one’s going to school me now and be like, “Uh, they do.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Who picks those? I want to know the person whose job it is to pick those and what they…

Emily Ladau:
[inaudible 00:22:26].

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, but how do they decide which to pick?

Emily Ladau:
I don’t know. Whatever letter they’re feeling partial to that day.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s true.

Emily Ladau:
Maybe it’s like how I play Wordle, which is that I look up, and whatever five-letter word I find first is sometimes what I start with.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Can I tell you? I play Wordle differently than everyone I know who plays Wordle. And I don’t know if I’m doing it wrong or if…

Emily Ladau:
Please explain.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Okay. Courtney does not do this, and neither does anyone in her family. They’re the other people. And I want to know how you do it. I try to guess the word. That’s the goal. I don’t care if it’s in one, two, three, four, five, or six. But she and everyone else I know that plays Wordle really guns for the low score.
I’m about winning, so I brute-force it or I try to. I lose a lot too. But I am like, “No, I’m getting the word.” She’s like, “No, I’m getting the word and I’m getting it soon.”

Emily Ladau:
So you would rather get the word on line six?

Kyle Khachadurian:
If given the choice, I’d also like to get it sooner. I’m just saying that is a secondary goal for me.

Emily Ladau:
Okay. Yeah. Sometimes if I think it’ll bring me closer to the word, I’ll repeat a letter even if it’s wrong.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, yeah. Have you ever done a throwaway word, though, like a whole word you knew wasn’t right?

Emily Ladau:
Sometimes I’ll do it just because it will help me eliminate more letters.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Can I tell you? The other day, one of my usual starters was the word, and I didn’t use it, and I was so annoyed.

Emily Ladau:
Man, I haven’t played Wordle yet today.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Actually, it was a couple of days ago. It was “crane.” [inaudible 00:24:03].

Emily Ladau:
Why is that one your starter word? I mean, it’s a good word. [inaudible 00:24:07].

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. It’s got a common beginning and it’s got two vowels. And N is a very common letter too.

Emily Ladau:
You know what? Okay, so you said it was the word, so I can’t start with it today.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, you can. It’s just not going to be the answer.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. No, I know. Anyway, this episode is now about Wordle.

Kyle Khachadurian:
No, but really, it was just interesting for me to realize how, to some of these folks, it appeared as if this was their disability community.
They were completely unaware of the fact that there were even other disabled spaces at all. I didn’t want to come in being a preacher. That’s not why I was there. I was there because it’s like, hey, you’re my people. But it was just like, you know there’s more than this. You do know that, right?
I’m not trying to say that from a high horse either. It’s just like, I really want to give you this knowledge. I sound like I’m a person who knocks on doors and proselytizes, but it kind of feels like that.

Emily Ladau:
No, but I don’t think it’s proselytizing, depending on how you do it. I think there’s always a way to show up into a space and be very holier than thou and be like, “Did you know there’s a better space?”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, but that’s the thing. I’m not coming at it like that. Literally, I’m just like, “Hey, guys. There’s this thing.”

Emily Ladau:
Right. And it can be a both/and. It doesn’t have to be an either/or.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Exactly.

Emily Ladau:
You can stick with the original community that you were hanging out with. But also, hey, there’s a whole world out there for you to discover. And I think that’s a beautiful thing. I think that’s the right way to go about it-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, totally.

Emily Ladau:
… is when you’re like, let me just share with you that this exists. And I will give you this knowledge. Do with it what you will. I’m not forcing onto you a particular way of being or associating with a particular group.

Kyle Khachadurian:
No, that’s not my style or forte.

Emily Ladau:
Of course not.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t know. It was a very interesting feeling. Because I’m not a preachy kind of guy, except on this show. It’s almost like… This is a silly analogy, but imagine you run into a group of people, a whole group of people who only ever eat vanilla ice cream.
Now, vanilla happens to be my favorite flavor. But imagine now if they didn’t know that there were other flavors, and then you show up with chocolate, and it’s just like, “Try this.”

Emily Ladau:
No, that makes a lot of sense because you’re just introducing to people that something else exists, but you’re also not saying that what they already do is bad.

Kyle Khachadurian:
No.

Emily Ladau:
Because we could get into an entire cultural conversation here about how that’s basically colonialism.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. And colonialism isn’t funny. I’m laughing because I can imagine taking over a space to tell them that your space is better is like… Yeah, that’s exactly what it is.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s not what I’m doing.

Emily Ladau:
But the vanilla and chocolate thing is an incredibly tame example. But the other thing is you’re not going there and being like, “Guys, stop eating vanilla ice cream because chocolate is better.”
How about you can enjoy vanilla, but did you know that chocolate exists? And no pressure, but I’m going to leave this pint of Häagen-Dazs over here if you want it.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, do with it what you will.

Emily Ladau:
I wanted to name the colonialism thing because I am not oblivious to the fact that we, as a culture, are very good at just showing up and imposing ourselves and being like, “Well, our cultural values are better than your cultural values. So here, we’re just going to dominate your culture until we get rid of it. And then you’re going to be part of our culture.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
And if you want rights within our culture afterwards, sorry about that.

Emily Ladau:
Right. First, you need to assimilate, and then we will reject you. It’s great. It’s really good. Welcome to America.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I was going to say that’s the American way. We are vibing right now.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. But I just felt like I needed to name that that is not at all what we are implying here.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, yeah. No, no. I appreciate that. I really do.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. I feel like, for all of the disabled people who rail against that kind of cultural imposition, we can sometimes be the most guilty of it. And I don’t think people are going to like that I’m saying that.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, but it’s true. But that’s why I wanted to do this, because it was almost an epiphany. It was.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah.

Kyle Khachadurian:
The way that I felt after I had it was almost this guilt. It was like, yeah, I should have known to not think this way and to not take that for granted. And it’s true, I should have, but I didn’t. And I felt so strongly about it that I wanted to record this.

Emily Ladau:
I think it’s a totally worthwhile conversation to be having. And quite frankly, I feel like it’s one of my favorite conversations that we’ve had in a while.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Thank you.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. So I’m glad you brought it up because, as I was saying earlier, so often I think these are just talking points that I rattle off, and I can talk about it in theory. But in reality, I forget myself sometimes and I forget these things sometimes.
And I want to be better about that. But sometimes I just feel like I am existing in an echo chamber, and I want to do a better job of getting out of that when I can.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
And I don’t know how to get out of it sometimes, but there is a part of me that hopes that the podcast helps. I realize that getting demographic information for who listens to a podcast is a challenge, but there is always this part of me that hopes that we are reaching people who may not necessarily be these very online people but have found us somehow, and we offer a little bit of insight.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. That is literally what I hope for this show all the time.

Emily Ladau:
But also, if you want to school us on something, you can send us an email too. [inaudible 00:30:44].

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, yeah. Please do. Please do. Honestly. Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Do you have, for the beautiful people at home, a final takeaway?

Kyle Khachadurian:
No, except to say I really like your shirt. It’s a good shirt.

Emily Ladau:
My shirt?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes, your shirt. I’m sure the listener shirts are great too, but your shirt is pretty good. It’s excellent.

Emily Ladau:
That’s funny because I feel like this is a house dress, and I rarely really wear it out in public. But it’s this very bold, flowery dress with a turquoise background. My mom got it for me.

Kyle Khachadurian:
See, that’s why I think I like it so much because I don’t think I’ve ever seen you in it. So it’s new.

Emily Ladau:
No, I don’t really wear it around very much, but today I am so turquoise.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Ooh, and her nails are turquoise too.

Emily Ladau:
My nails are turquoise. My dress is turquoise with flowers. I’m wearing turquoise compression stocking, drinking out of my turquoise water bottle. I think I need [inaudible 00:31:48].

Kyle Khachadurian:
This episode of The Accessible Stall was brought to you by Patreon patrons like you and the color turquoise.

Emily Ladau:
Oh. See? Okay, that’s a different thing entirely because you know when you used to watch-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. Oh my God. I didn’t realize that that’s what it sounded like until just after I said it, but I was so [inaudible 00:32:07]-

Emily Ladau:
[inaudible 00:32:07]. I was like, “This show is made possible because of viewers like you or by viewers like you [inaudible 00:32:13].”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. And it’s funny because when you were four and you heard that, watching Sesame Street, I don’t know about you, but I felt responsible for Sesame Street. I’m like, “I am helping.”

Emily Ladau:
No, I did. Because it was always like, “Viewers like you.” And I was like [inaudible 00:32:33].

Kyle Khachadurian:
“Like me?”

Emily Ladau:
Oh, man. That’s funny.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, lord. That’s really funny.

Emily Ladau:
My final takeaway is I think I like your shirt, but I can’t really tell what’s on it.

Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s just a very nice-looking, burgundy, well-fitting shirt because I am a new member of Stitch Fix. This is not a sponsored episode by Stitch Fix, but I like them so far.

Emily Ladau:
Okay. Next episode that I think we should do is about finding clothing as a disabled person.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, yes. Yes. I hate it. If there was a socially acceptable way to walk around with no clothes, and I don’t mean in a gross way, I just mean just because it’s so difficult, I would think about it. I really would.

Emily Ladau:
I respect that and feel the same way and often do things without pants on.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Even podcasts sometimes.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. I’m not wearing pants right now, but that’s because I’m wearing a dress.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. I am wearing sweatpants right now, but that has not always been true on this show.

Emily Ladau:
Peeling back the curtain. And on that note-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Might we say, you, yes, you, look great today in whatever clothes that you might or might not be wearing.

Emily Ladau:
You know what? I like that. Very inclusive. Very expansive. Because somebody could be listening to this while they’re taking a shower.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s a good idea. I’ve never listened to a podcast in the shower. Maybe I should. That’s an idea.

Emily Ladau:
Since I started living alone, I do that now.

Kyle Khachadurian:
What do you listen to? Not us. That’d be weird.

Emily Ladau:
I do listen to us sometimes.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, but not in the shower, right?

Emily Ladau:
No, not in the shower. No. Although I’ve had conversations with you from the shower, so that’s kind of-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, of course. That’s to say, are you even friends if you’ve never FaceTimed in the…

Emily Ladau:
Or rescued someone from falling down in the shower.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Hey, I would do that again.

Emily Ladau:
I know you would. And I love you for it. I would also rescue you.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Thank you.

Emily Ladau:
But I think that in rescuing you, I’d probably hurt myself and you, and it really would just be very terrible.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I agree. But also, a small part of me wants to see that occur.

Emily Ladau:
Sure. Right.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Just to see if it can, because I believe in you, but I also know the world that we live in and gravity exists.

Emily Ladau:
Gravity exists. Gravity does exist. Where was I going with the shower thing?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Your favorite shower podcast.

Emily Ladau:
Okay. If you want a recommendation for a podcast that has absolutely nothing to do with disability, I really like A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I just started listening to that.

Emily Ladau:
Did you really?

Kyle Khachadurian:
I swear to God. Like three weeks ago. I just started listening to that.

Emily Ladau:
Okay. Well, this is my recommendation. From the Good Mythical Morning crew, specifically Mythical Kitchen, it’s two chefs and they argue about food things. And I love it because it literally just takes me completely out of anything else that I’m thinking about because it’s just a silly conversation about food.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I have one for you, and this is up my alley, but I feel like you’d like it.

Emily Ladau:
All right. I’m ready. [inaudible 00:36:02].

Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s called Lateral.

Emily Ladau:
Ooh, what’s that? Tell me more.

Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s a quiz show where the questions require very strange thought, like lateral thinking. I wish I could give you an example of a question, but my mind is blanking. But I promise you, just give it a listen. Give one of them a listen. And if you’re into it-

Emily Ladau:
[inaudible 00:36:24].

Kyle Khachadurian:
Lateral, like lateral thinking.

Emily Ladau:
Okay. All right. I will do that.

Kyle Khachadurian:
And I recommend that to all of you too. It’s cool.

Emily Ladau:
Oh, yeah. Extending this. And also, please, if you have other podcast recommendations, hit us up. I want to know.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes.

Emily Ladau:
Because I take a lot of showers by myself.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I take all of them by myself.

Emily Ladau:
That wasn’t what I meant, but that was how it came out. I just meant that in my apartment, by myself, I am showering, and I would like some company… Nope. Still came out wrong. Okay.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That was worse somehow.

Emily Ladau:
Give me a podcast to listen to in the shower so that I can be by myself and not with another person, but listening to other people talk. Was that better?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, that was about it. Yeah, we got there.

Emily Ladau:
We got there. Okay. You still look good today, by the way.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, you look fabulous.

Emily Ladau:
Thanks so much for listening.

Kyle Khachadurian:
See you next time.

Emily Ladau:
Bye.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Bye.