Emily Ladau:
Hi, I’m Emily Ladau.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And I’m Kyle Khachadurian.
Emily Ladau:
And you’re listening to another episode of The Accessible Stall.
Kyle Khachadurian:
What are we going to talk about today, Emily?
Emily Ladau:
Okay. I don’t know how you’ve been feeling, but now that Twitter, which I refuse to call by its new name, has been in a total down spiral, I’m wondering where I’m supposed to be finding disability community on the internet. And I think the honest answer is I don’t know, and I’m feeling a little bit removed from it all right now.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I feel the same, but before we get into it, I just want to point out what you said about how you refuse to call it by its new name. And the reason I think that’s funny is because in the press, they all say X, formally known as Twitter, and it just makes me think of Prince, and it also makes me think of what a colossal failure he has done to rebrand it. Because if you need to constantly state its new name and what its old name used to be, then you probably don’t have the same level of brand recognition that you once did and you threw it away for no reason. So big brain move there.
Emily Ladau:
I know this is not a marketing podcast, but both of us are in communications for our day jobs and what a massive, massive branding failure.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Did you see how also it was valued at 19 billion today?
Emily Ladau:
Down from 44 billion? Yes, I did see that.
Kyle Khachadurian:
My God.
Emily Ladau:
And not for nothing, but on top of all of that, I mean, I know we’re going to get more into the community conversation, but they just continue to strip away basic features that make it more accessible. I mean, flashing the accessibility team and changing the way that articles show up so that you don’t even have- [inaudible 00:02:19]
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, that was so bad. I’m sorry. That was the worst thing. That was terrible that he did that.
Emily Ladau:
And I know we’re late on the uptake here and that this is the conversation that has already been happening. But I think I’m really feeling it lately because today I was actually trying to put together my monthly newsletter that I send out. And in that newsletter I always include a bunch of links that I have a little section that I call Disability Around the Interwebs. And for as long as I’ve been running the newsletter, the primary place where I would source those links was from Twitter because I followed disabled journalists and I engaged with disabled people who were constantly sharing news and updates and information about culture and just making me feel like I had that lifeline and that I was connected. And this month, I mean, I haven’t really been on Twitter almost at all, so I’m realizing that there’s a scarcity of information when I used to get a steady stream.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. It really has been interesting to see as somebody who doesn’t really use Twitter for anything other than the news, it’s become sort of a shell of its former self. Almost, I don’t want to say a ghost town because there are still people using it, but the types of content that I see going on Twitter nowadays is just not… I used to see people I follow and it used to recommend me people that it thought I would be interested in, and I would find a lot of disabled people that way. Really cool, really frankly normal, regular, every day disabled people. And I don’t know, I never found Twitter to be such a huge community for me, but I do know that it definitely was my sort of gateway drug, big air quotes, to the larger online disability community space. And as much as we’ve talked about how much we want to see that improve, say what you want about it, but Twitter really was sort of ground zero for that, and that’s something that I’ve always been thankful for and it’s just not the same. There’s something sad about it.
Emily Ladau:
And it’s not even just Twitter. I’m missing that sense of online community in general. I think that era feels very much over to me, even though there are so many disabled people who are still out there sharing their stories and sharing their thoughts. And I know people are on Instagram and people are on TikTok and I don’t know, what are the other ones? Bluesky. And I mean, the thing is at this point… Oh, Threads.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Threads. Who’s on threads? Is anyone on Threads?
Emily Ladau:
I’m here to-
Kyle Khachadurian:
Anyone on Threads is listener?
Emily Ladau:
I want to know because I’m not, and I just don’t have it in me anymore to transition to new social media platforms. If I’m being entirely honest with you, by the time Snapchat rolled around, I had given up.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. We both do social media for our job, so I don’t know about you, but I definitely have this love hate with it because I love to see what a platform is capable of when it’s done well. And typically you see that in the beginning and you sort of figure out the best way to use this new novel thing. It was very cool to see what TikTok, I don’t know the first thing about TikTok, but it was cool to watch that happen, but with mature, for lack of a better word, sites like Twitter. It’s just, I don’t know what’s left? What’s left on there? But it’s just-
Emily Ladau:
No, I agree with you. And yeah, I don’t want to be a downer. I’m not trying to be a bummer. I think I’m genuinely interested to hear from people who are listening where they find a sense of community. Are you watching YouTube videos that we should know about? Are there TikTokkers that you recommend? I mean, the reality is that I’m a curmudgeonly millennial at this point.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, we’re old now.
Emily Ladau:
I can’t really bring myself to learn new social media platforms, but if it would bring me further into the community that I feel like I’m lacking online, then I would really love that. And Instagram certainly has its fair share of disabled people and content creators, and there’s community there, but it’s just not as conversational. And sometimes that’s a good thing because conversational can lead to just a pile on and a complete mess, even though that does still happen in the comments section on Instagram, but it just doesn’t feel as much like there’s connection and I’m missing that, and I don’t know where to find it, but maybe it’s just because I’m not looking hard enough.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, I mean, does it exist? I have to imagine that it does, because I would find it very difficult to believe that a community just sort of up and vanished from thin air.
Emily Ladau:
But that’s also, and honestly, refresh my memory, because maybe this is what we talked about previously around disability in the community, but I mean, what even does the word community mean? How does the community banish? How does the community form? How does it take shape? And then what is it that causes that community to disperse elsewhere?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, I can’t answer most of those questions, but I think one is a cataclysmic event involving a billionaire buying your platform and just ruining it. That’ll do it.
Emily Ladau:
Well, yeah, that guy sucks. I’m not a super fan.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, but it’s a valid question, because I would assume, if our community is as strong as I’d like to believe it is, that it shouldn’t matter where we end up or how we get there. It’ll kind of live on. And I’m not saying it hasn’t, but I’m saying that I just want to find it, I guess. Yeah, maybe we are getting too old. Maybe they’re all on TikTok though, and maybe we have to learn how to do TikTok dances, but seated.
Emily Ladau:
Okay. Actually, I think you’re onto something here.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, wait, actually, that’s content. Wait, we should probably, yeah.
Emily Ladau:
We should definitely do TikTok chair dancing. That’s a hundred percent already a thing.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Got to be.
Emily Ladau:
Well, I know it is because I’m the age where I watch my TikToks on Instagram reels.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes.
Emily Ladau:
So I know, I follow dancers in wheelchairs who are choreographing really cool things. And meanwhile, I am over here, I’m lucky that I moved from my bed to my desk.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s exercise, okay?
Emily Ladau:
It really is. Look, I don’t want to give anybody fodder for either the stereotype that disabled people are lazy or the stereotype that it’s inspiring that disabled people do things, but it’s inspiring that I move anywhere considering how much energy it takes me.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It is, okay, but that’s not just for you, dear… You, dear listener know this because you’ve been listening to us for a while. That’s not the same kind of inspirational that you’re talking about. That really is inspiring, okay. At least to me.
Emily Ladau:
It is. Yeah. When I sit up in the morning, I inspire myself.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Check that off the old to-do list. All right, we can go back to sleep.
Emily Ladau:
I read something on Instagram because that is my primary social media, but waking up is just preparing to spend the next 12 to 16 hours getting ready for bed. And I was like, wow, that’s me.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That actually really reframes that for me. That’s a very interesting way to think about it. That might help me.
Emily Ladau:
Yep. It’s just you get up so that you can go back to bed. And that’s how I feel about that.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s also vaguely depressing, but I do love it.
Emily Ladau:
And I’m not even depressed right now. I’m fine. I just, getting up out of bed is a hall for my body and it is what it is. But I go back to the matter at hand, which is that I’m really, really longing for that sense of community and solidarity. And I occasionally find it in an Instagram post where somebody shares something and I’m like, “Yep, that’s also my experience.” But it’s becoming more rare.
And I’m realizing now, the thing about Twitter for me was that if I had a very small but frustrating interaction with someone, or if I had a small but positive interaction with someone, Twitter was the place where I could go and be like, “Can you believe that this jerk made this ableist comment?” Or, “Wow, I had the best, most inclusive and accepting experience today.” And then all of a sudden you have all these random people who come out of the woodwork and they’re like, “Oh my God, solidarity. I also had the same experience. This is amazing. This is terrible. Screw that guy.” And none of the other social media platforms that exist right now have that same kind of like, I can just quickly put something out into the atmosphere and know that a hundred other people are going to relate.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And it’s funny because when you said that, my mind immediately went to the fact that you could argue that Instagram is the most accessible, and I don’t mean literally, although maybe it is in that way too. I don’t know. I mean more in the sense that it’s got a very, very low barrier to entry. As long as you can type 280 characters, you can use Twitter. As opposed to something like Instagram where if you’re not taking pictures, you have to create stuff, which is easy for some, but you have to be a little bit creative. And so I think part of the reason why the disability community sort of formed around Twitter is just because it’s easier to tweet. And I don’t mean that in a way to suggest that Twitter is less than, I just mean that it’s more accessible.
Emily Ladau:
Actually, you bring up a really good point. I think there’s also a lot of conversation that I see pop up around all kinds of issues going on in the world where the question is why aren’t you doing more? Why aren’t you saying more? Because it’s a heavier lift on different social media platforms. I mean, I can’t just send off a quick response, nor honestly should I or should anyone. I think we should all be more thoughtful in our social media posting. But with Instagram, I can’t just send a thought. I also need some kind of imagery to accompany it, and I want that to be accessible. So I’m going to describe the image. And I create lots of content, but I mean, there are days where I don’t want to create content. I just want to tell somebody what I’m thinking.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And now a word from our friends.
Speaker 3:
Have you heard about A Valid Podcast? It’s a show about people with intellectual disabilities and/or autism. A Valid Podcast is part storytelling and it’s part news recording. Season four is focused on employment.
Speaker 4:
Because we don’t want to be at home all day doing nothing. We’d rather go out and do something and get paid for it. I work at a local law firm.
Speaker 5:
I work at a clothing store.
Speaker 3:
A Valid Podcast was produced by All-Abilities Media.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, that’s really, I think part of the bigger part of the issue, is Twitter sort of was the last social media site that I can remember where the content was your thoughts rather than you putting your thoughts into some abstract form in order to send it out.
Emily Ladau:
Yes. And also, I mean, I have definitely been a part of a couple reels on Instagram that co-created with other people.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Those are great by the way. Love those.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah, I mean, they’re fun and they’re cute, but I am busy living my day-to-day life, and I don’t feel like I have it in me to live my life in the form of content. And that is not a knock against content creators. That’s just where I’m at in my life. That is not accessible to me right now. I do not have the physical or mental capacity to spend that much time turning my life into consumable pieces.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Every single time we make an episode of this show, I have a sudden renewed respect for people who genuinely create good content for a living. I love to do this, and I think you do too. And it’s hard. And I don’t know, I just think that when you don’t make stuff, it’s easy to think that it’s easy. And so I’m not saying contact creators have a tough life, but I’m saying to be constantly on and to be constantly made to be creative, really can and does burn somebody out if you’re not careful.
Emily Ladau:
Especially if it’s about something as personal as disability. I mean, if I’m honest, I think that that is sometimes why you and I end up with gaps between episodes is because there’s always something to talk about when it comes to disability, but sometimes talking about disability is a lot when you’re also a disabled person existing in the world. And on the one hand, I feel like we are contributing to creating that sense of community for a lot of people.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I hope so.
Emily Ladau:
The people who listen to us have told us that we create a sense of community for them. So I really value that. But it can sometimes be exhausting to be on in that way when you’re talking about disability and then you don’t take that off and put it on a shelf, you’re still disabled when you stop recording.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s really the… Not problem. But I think that’s the crux of it. That is probably, at least for me, I’ve never thought of it that way, but that’s probably why it’s sometimes so hard to do this. It’s because you can’t remove it when… It’s not like we’re two people talking about movies. You know what I mean? We still have to live like this. Not that it’s bad, but I’m just saying it can be exhausting.
Emily Ladau:
Sometimes it is bad. And we have created a space where we can be honest about the fact that if we say that disability is not all sunshine and roses-
Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s not.
Emily Ladau:
… we are not saying that in a way that is intended to buy into the negative stereotypes that we are also trying to fight. But at the same time, we’re over here mining our lives for content, right?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes.
Emily Ladau:
When things happen to us, when we reflect on things from our past, when we think about how things impact us as disabled people, it’s not impersonal or impartial. It’s actually who we are as people, and we are using that and using our stories to create something that we are putting out in the universe. So I think what I miss so much about Twitter is not having to reveal these big old stories and just sharing some thoughts and feelings in 280 characters, and then being able to back away from it for a little while. Although that was not always the case, I definitely had moments where I would be on Twitter on my phone and look up and see that I also had it open on my computer, so.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh my God. Yeah. That’s such a… It’s so relatable. But what’s funny-
Emily Ladau:
[inaudible 00:20:45] problem.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Just before what you just said when you were describing what it was like to be so personal, while you were speaking about that, I couldn’t help but think, yeah, but isn’t that what makes it beautiful in a way? But it is, and it’s hard because it’s such a balancing act, which quite frankly is something I’m already pretty bad at, but it applies to this too. On the one hand, I love doing this, but on the other hand, which does not subtract from the love in any way, living and existing like this and being so open and vulnerable with it in a forum that we’ve cultivated an audience where we can feel comfortable enough to be that, is very strange. It kind of feels like you’re kind of naked in a glass house. Not really, but there is sort of a vulnerability there that I don’t think I’ve ever really realized.
Emily Ladau:
I think you’re absolutely right. And I noticed that too when people comment to me about what they heard on the podcast. So for example, I know a lovely person who listened to a few episodes of our podcast, and at some point we must have talked about the fact that I have a different sleep schedule than my boyfriend does, and that I’m not a morning person, and he’s very much a morning person. And so this woman who had just been listening to our podcast, she met my boyfriend at an event recently, and she literally said to him, she was like, “I know your sleep schedule.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
That is pretty funny, actually.
Emily Ladau:
It made me laugh. It wasn’t meant to be creepy at all, and it’s not, because we put it out there.
Kyle Khachadurian:
But you probably forgot you even said it, right?
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. I mean, I didn’t even realize that I had said it in passing, but then my boyfriend mentioned her comment to me, and then she told me later on in the evening, and it made me laugh because I realized that even though it’s just us having a conversation in the moment, we are talking to other people.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That is funny. That is really funny.
Emily Ladau:
So yeah, I mean, social media is not just for you, it’s for other people. Any form of media that you create, it’s not always just for you, it’s for other people. And we have always done this show in a way that really feels like it’s just for us, but there are real actual people listening to what we’re saying.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And we love it, but it is always strange. I know we’ve talked about that before too, but it really does bear repeating every once in a while.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. No, it’s a strange feeling. But at the same time, I kind of want this to be an invitation to people if they would like to reach out, because they’re also missing that sense of community, send us an email, we will answer.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. I mean, any way that this little show of ours could help provide anyone with a sense of community is, that is ultimate goal, along with educating people for what I’ve always wanted for this show. So that would make me very happy personally.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I want to teach people, but I also think there needs to be space for the people who aren’t really looking to be taught and are just looking to be seen. And I would say you could tweet at us, but-
Kyle Khachadurian:
You could X… What do you even say now? What is it?
Emily Ladau:
I don’t know, man. I also can’t remember the last time I checked our X, formerly known as Twitter. Ugh.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, yeah.
Emily Ladau:
I just don’t use it anymore. I don’t. I’m an Instagram girly.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, follow us on Instagram.
Emily Ladau:
You know what I also really like?
Kyle Khachadurian:
What’s that?
Emily Ladau:
I like LinkedIn. I’m sorry- [inaudible 00:25:00]
Kyle Khachadurian:
What?
Emily Ladau:
… in the work.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh man. We buried the lead with this one. I didn’t know that.
Emily Ladau:
I’m just going to say it. I like LinkedIn.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I will say one thing I do love about LinkedIn, the little sound that happens when you post something is just so satisfying to my ears. It scratches a part of my brain that is just, I don’t know how to describe it. It’s like the opposite of the Slack noise.
Emily Ladau:
Okay. The Slack noise sets something off in me, as does the sound that comes from Outlook emails.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh my God. Both of those things could wake me from a dead sleep in a cold sweat. Like [inaudible 00:25:44].
Emily Ladau:
The Pavlovian response that I have to them at this point is unhealthy. But yeah, the LinkedIn actually has a couple of good sound effects. There’s also a messenger sound effect that I like, and if you accept a connection request, I think it makes a nice [inaudible 00:26:03]
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. Oh God. Okay. You’re converting me. I made fun of you just now, not 30 seconds ago, but you’re explaining this, and I’m like, “Yes, I’m turning into a LinkedIn guy.”
Emily Ladau:
Look, I mean, I’m a LinkedIn girl. And this is not a humble brag, this is just ridiculous to me. I have almost 20,000 followers on there.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I think, what’s that? Got to be top five most followed accounts that isn’t Bill Gates and Mark Cuban.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Okay. No, but I am, they named me a top disability voice, and I will wear that badge with so much pride because I love LinkedIn and you can’t tell me nothing.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I think you might’ve just converted me.
Emily Ladau:
Good. Join LinkedIn.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I mean, I’m already on it, but I don’t ever use it. I use it as a repository for my professional life. It’s a digital resume that’s always living, but-
Emily Ladau:
Well, I also do that too, just because I want that living document, but I’m telling you, I use Instagram and I use LinkedIn.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Maybe you should have a LinkedIn.
Emily Ladau:
I’m firmly in the camp of being a 127-year-old woman, but that’s fine.
Kyle Khachadurian:
All right. Well, in that case, I’ve got a Nigerian Prince email I need you to respond to.
Emily Ladau:
And I would be more than happy to wire them the money.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Great. They’ll give you like 500 grand for your trouble.
Emily Ladau:
Please don’t. Please don’t fall for internet traps. I literally just got a phishing email today actually from someone pretending to be the president of an organization that I work with.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Do you follow Kitboga?
Emily Ladau:
No. But am I about to be schooled?
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, he does scam baiting. It’s very good. You’ll love it.
Emily Ladau:
Okay. Well, yeah, give me all your wrecks for nonsense like that. I love it. I shouldn’t. I feel terrible when people get scammed, but.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, no, no, no. He doesn’t scam. He scams the scammers.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, what?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes, he scammed baits. Yes.
Emily Ladau:
That’s amazing. I’m fascinated by stories like that. There was an article that I read about scams that are happening with Zelle, where some couple tried to buy a swimming pool and then pay the contractor through Zelle, except that they were not paying the contractor.
Kyle Khachadurian:
What?
Emily Ladau:
They were paying a scammer.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, that sucks.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah, it was pretty terrible. But we have gotten off track. And you know what? I’m going to tell you, if you want a little insight into something kind of Meta, Kyle and I are using a new platform to record this episode. So I have no countdown timer and no concept of how much time we’ve been talking for.
Kyle Khachadurian:
30 minutes. We should probably wrap it up.
Emily Ladau:
And on that note, we should probably do final takeaways.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Mine is, you can support the show at patreon.com/theaccessiblestall. Just $1 a month ensures that all current and future episodes of the Accessible Stall remain what?
Emily Ladau:
Accessible.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Never back down. Never what? Accessible. What’s your final takeaway?
Emily Ladau:
My final takeaway is let’s keep building this community.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Heck yeah.
Emily Ladau:
So this has been another episode of the Accessible Stall.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I’m Kyle.
Emily Ladau:
I’m Emily.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And might we say, you look great today.
Emily Ladau:
Really? You looked so good today.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Especially you, Stephanie, in that pink polka dot shirt.
Emily Ladau:
And I was going to say you, Barry, in that [inaudible 00:30:00]. Who’s Barry?
Kyle Khachadurian:
I always joke, there’s going to be someone named Stephanie wearing a pink polka dot shirt who’s going to be really freaked out.
Emily Ladau:
You know what? Did you ever, when there were the kids’ television shows and then at the end of the show or the beginning of the show, they’d be like, “Hi, Frank. I see you Joe.” And then it’s like-
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. That was kind of the vibe I was going for. I realized it probably just sounded creepy, but I’m keeping it.
Emily Ladau:
We’re watching you Stephanie and Barry.
Kyle Khachadurian:
You look great today. Both of you, especially.
Emily Ladau:
You look good. Okay. This got weird because we can never just end an episode.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Impossible. See you later.
Emily Ladau:
Love you.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And now a word from our friends. And now a word from our friends.