Kyle Khachadurian:
This episode is sponsored by ABLEnow. Tax advantaged savings accounts for eligible individuals with disabilities.
Emily Ladau:
For too long, Americans with disabilities couldn’t save or invest for the future. Advocates fought hard to change this resulting in the federal ABLE Act and ABLEnow accounts.
Kyle Khachadurian:
ABLEnow accounts help eligible individuals safe for the future without endangering eligibility for certain disability benefits such as Medicaid and SSI.
Emily Ladau:
ABLEnow is available to qualified individuals in all 50 states. Learn if you or someone you know is eligible for an ABLEnow account at ablenow.com.
Hi, I am Emily Ladau.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And I’m Kyle Khachadurian.
Emily Ladau:
And you are listening to the first episode of The Accessible Stall for 2024. Woo.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I actually was going to say that exact thing. That’s really funny. What are we going to talk about today for the first time this year?
Emily Ladau:
Anger.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Anger. I’m so ready. It’s my favorite emotion. Just kidding.
Emily Ladau:
Actually, it’s funny because I’m not really actively angry at this particular moment, but-
Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, get it together. Be angry.
Emily Ladau:
I’m always mad about something. But I have a lot of feelings about anger, so let’s talk about it.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Heck yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Okay. So here’s the thing. I have been thinking so much lately about expressions of anger that come from particular experiences because I’m disabled and I will get really … off about something either online or in person and then find myself having this internal debate about how angry I’m actually allowed to get as a disabled person because I’ve spent so many years of my life internalizing this idea of I can’t be the bitter disabled person, or you have to be nice to people to get things that you need. So yeah, it’s just a balance that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. And I think as we might say on The Accessible Stall, there’s a lot to unpack there.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I used to also get the just be grateful that you can walk or whatever. For me it was walk, but for you it might be some other ability. And it’s really hard to deconstruct or even feel anger at all when that was shoved down your throat your whole life because like, oh yeah, that’s true. I shouldn’t be angry about this thing that’s small in comparison to my ability to move or whatever it is for you. And I’m sure that I’m not alone in having heard something like that.
Emily Ladau:
I feel like for me it was more of take the scraps and shut up and always keep it in perspective. That was the big thing that I was told growing up was like, it’s all about perspective. Don’t get too mad at this thing because remember, you’re luckier than most people. And it’s like, yeah, I absolutely, totally grew up with privilege. I acknowledge that. And also there are things that are really … me off
Kyle Khachadurian:
You guys couldn’t see, but I was gesturing very excitedly at Emily when she was saying that because very similar things were told to me by my parents and it’s weird that we have that similar thing.
Emily Ladau:
I don’t know if it’s weird though, because I feel like probably that’s what a lot of parents try to tell their disabled kids.
Kyle Khachadurian:
But in their same breath … I don’t know about your parents. You have one disabled parent, which is so cool in retrospect.
Emily Ladau:
50% of my parents are physically disabled.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I’m not saying that I wish mine were. I’m just saying that’s such a unique experience. We talk about it a lot, but that’s so rare when I really think about it. But they also told me you have to work twice as hard to get half as far in terms of your disability. So whether they used the word or not, they were very keenly aware of ableism and able privilege, at least a little. But then they would also say things like the things you were saying where you should just be grateful for what you have, which is true, but this is nonsense and makes me angry.
Emily Ladau:
And not only the working twice as hard to get half as far, but also this idea that I always had to be nice to people. This is what I still struggle with. I’m such a people pleaser, but my mom always instilled in me this idea of you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That’s what she would say. It’s a phrase that I’ve heard before and I’ve internalized that to the point that that’s how I conduct myself as a human being. I always try to be kind to people. And in fact, I’ve gotten yelled at for saying that online before. The whole, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar thing.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Wait, why?
Emily Ladau:
Someone said that it reeks of privilege that I’m able to be nice to people and that I shouldn’t be pandering to able-bodied people. And my argument to that is if I’m not nice, I often don’t get what I want. I’m not saying that’s right, but if I’m a bitch, no one’s going to do anything to make sure that my life is more accessible.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s also a safety issue.
Emily Ladau:
Thank you.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Not kind of. Not kind of. It is. Or it can be. You don’t know. So it’s better to err on the side of caution. It’s always better to be nice to people because you have no idea who you’re going to … off just enough that day or whatever.
Emily Ladau:
Okay. Well, I don’t even remember if I’ve told this story on the podcast, but my guess is I must have, but if not, I’ll tell it now. And I would say to you, dear listener, stop me if you’ve heard it, but also don’t stop me because we like you. Stick around. I went to see a movie with my parents. This was probably three, four years ago at this point. And we came out of the movie and I was fired up from it because there were some disability themes and I was just in a mood. And there was a car that was parked in front of the curb cut. And I was just like, “It’s cold. I want to get out. I want to go home. This is not a parking space.” And this car had extremely tinted windows. So I was peering in the car to see if anyone was in there so I could be like, “Hey, could you just move this?”
And then all of a sudden I catch a glimpse of the window rolling down and there’s a baby in the front seat. A baby just sitting in the front seat. And then the window rolls down further and I’m so startled. I was like, someone left unsupervised children in the car? And then I suddenly see the face of someone who looks like a teenager. And if she is, cool. But I was taken aback in the moment and she starts yelling at me and she’s like, “I’m his mom. My husband’s just in there getting tickets. How dare you accuse me of leaving my child unsupervised in the car.” And I was like, “Ms., I wasn’t accusing anyone of anything. I’m just confused in the moment because there’s a baby in the driver’s seat and you’re blocking the curb cut and I need to get down.”
So then she’s just sitting there glaring at me. Her husband comes back out after having gotten the tickets. And I was really annoyed at that point because move your baby out of the driver’s seat and move your car. That’s not a parking space. So long story short, I looked at the driver, the husband, and I was just like, “Dude, this is not a parking space.” And I don’t think that’s that angry, but he took it as angry and he started yelling at me and my dad. And he was definitely about to escalate things. And I’m pretty sure he told me to do something sexually inappropriate to his genitalia as he drove off and gave us the finger. And my dad was trying to deescalate the situation and my mom was like, “Emily, you cannot do that. We could have just gotten into a fight in the parking lot. You cannot tell someone off like that.” And meanwhile, I’m like, “I think my anger is justified here. This asshole blocked the curb cut for no reason.” Okay. Clearly you can see I’m getting worked up now. I was not angry before.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, no, but I’m saying if how you told it is how it happened, then you hardly got angry in comparison to the person you were speaking with in my opinion.
Emily Ladau:
The wife was telling her husband, “She accused me of leaving our baby unsupervised in the car.” And I was like, “I wasn’t accusing anyone of anything. I was just like, don’t park here.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
I just want to go home. Just trying to get out of here, dude.
Emily Ladau:
But the thing is that it really could have escalated, and I think that was a scary moment for me where I was reminded that I can’t express anger in public if someone’s doing something …
Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t usually get angry. I do feel anger and I private message Emily, “Can you believe this person?” But I don’t usually get outwardly angry except for … Oh God, we were coming out of our elevator to go out of our building and somebody else … We were going in. Sorry. We were going in.
Emily Ladau:
Not we like you and me.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, no. Sorry. Courtney and I.
Emily Ladau:
Your fiance. Yeah.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. We were going out while someone else was coming in or maybe we were going in while someone else was coming out. But point being, she was carrying a piece of carry-on luggage that rolls and she was pulling it behind her. And Courtney was rounding a corner. My partner is blind and so they do what they do and they bumped into each other. And this lady, she goes, “Jesus Christ.” Not under her breath. I’m saying it how she said it. She didn’t just whisper it. She was outwardly upset that somebody bumped into her. And any other day I would’ve let that go. But I guess I was feeling a little spicy. At first I did let it go because we kept walking and then I was like … And I turned around and I didn’t walk back to her or anything, but I was like, “She’s blind.” I said that loudly in the hall. And then the lady said, “Oh, I’m so sorry.” And I said, “Yeah, I know you are.” And then we just kept walking.
But Courtney was like, “You can’t yell at people. You don’t know.” And I’m like, “You’re right but I really needed to do that. There was something in me that that was going to come out of me at some point today.” It didn’t make me look good, but boy, it felt good to do that. And it’s the same thing. I don’t know. I don’t look at someone and go, oh, they can’t hurt me because as a disabled person you don’t really get that. I feel like able-bodied people can size people up in a much different way than we can. So I don’t know. Maybe she has something. I don’t know. But I needed to say that very badly. I was embarrassed because I usually, like you, my whole life have been told to keep my cool and I usually do. But yeah, not that day. I don’t really know if this has a point except for that sometimes it’s okay to be angry.
Emily Ladau:
No. I think the point is that Courtney’s response is pretty much exactly the response that I got from my mom. It’s just that like, oh my God, you absolutely should not yell at someone because you don’t know what rage you’re going to evoke from that person that could potentially evolve into a dangerous situation or devolve as it were really, really quickly. And so I’ve just learned I need to keep my mouth shut. And the other thing is I constantly find myself in infuriating situations that are technically not even of another person’s direct making where I still am so frustrated and yet I know that I have to be really, really nice to that person or they’re not going to help me. So here’s an example. I was on the subway recently and don’t let me get started on a rant about the New York City subway system.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Make it accessible. It’ll be accessible in 2050 when we’re all ready to retire.
Emily Ladau:
I was so calm at the beginning of this episode and now I’m like-
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. You feel your blood pressure. Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
But again, long story short, broken elevator, needed to find the alternative elevator. And there was a set of directions on the MTA website that was talking about, oh, just go find this other elevator. So I was like, okay, yeah, sure, I’ll just go find this other elevator. And it was impossible. First I tried to ask some cops for help, but they were wildly unfamiliar with the subway station so I was like, okay, nevermind.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Why do they put cops in subway stations if they don’t know them? Put cops that know the subway in the subway.
Emily Ladau:
For real.
Kyle Khachadurian:
There’s no reason.
Emily Ladau:
Or at least that know that subway station.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Yeah. I don’t mean the whole … Yeah. That’s a whole different conversation.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. How I find it unnecessary that they’re there but okay. So then I searched high and low for about 15 minutes and finally found the staff person at the station because they’re doing this whole thing now where the staff person is supposed to be in the station walking around instead of behind the booth.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Really?
Emily Ladau:
I don’t know what that’s supposed to accomplish. Yeah. But it’s so annoying because you can’t find them because they’re not in the booth. So I finally found the person and she was very nice, but she works at this subway station and she was like, “Oh, I have no idea where this other elevator is.” I was like, “What?” But of course I can’t be like, “Are you joking? That’s part of your job.” I have to be like, “Oh. How about we find it together? Would you come with me and assist me?” I change the pitch of my voice. I giggle. I might as well bat my eyelashes. But really I just wanted to be like, “Are you joking? I’m asking you a very simple question.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
I’ll tell you what’s not a joke. This episode’s sponsor, ABLEnow.
Emily Ladau:
This episode is sponsored by ABLEnow. Tax advantaged savings accounts for eligible individuals with disabilities.
Kyle Khachadurian:
For too long, Americans with disabilities could not save or invest for the future. Advocates fought hard to change this, resulting in a grassroots movement that changed the laws so people with disabilities can achieve a better life experience.
Emily Ladau:
ABLEnow accounts help eligible individuals save for the future without endangering certain disability benefits that are critical for health and independence.
Kyle Khachadurian:
There’s no enrollment fee, no minimum amount required to start your savings and anyone can contribute.
Emily Ladau:
ABLEnow accounts are specifically designed for people with disabilities and they’re available to qualified individuals in all 50 states.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Funds in your ABLEnow account can pay for a variety of qualified disability expenses related to health, independence and quality of life.
Emily Ladau:
Make 2024 the year you get your finances in order. Learn if you or someone you know is eligible to open an ABLEnow account at ablenow.com. Anyway.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That was good, huh?
Emily Ladau:
Great transition. I’m sure they’re going to appreciate that. But in all sincerity, ABLEnow is super cool. We love working with them.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, we love them. They are wonderful.
Emily Ladau:
So back to being mad, I really do find that I often have to put on a particular voice. Or if I am checking into a hotel and the room is not accessible, despite having booked an accessible room, I cannot get mad at the person behind the desk because then they will not be inclined to help me. So instead, I have to sweet talk them to get them to sort out their …
Kyle Khachadurian:
God. And it’s always like … I know it’s never the person whose fault it is, the person I’m talking to. I get that. But then when the excuses come. It’s like, “Well, yeah, even though you booked it well in advanced and even though everything’s on the up and up, and even though you’re always at this hotel chain, even though I’ve seen you here before, it’s double booked and well tough.” What are you supposed to do? It’s unacceptable at best.
Emily Ladau:
So yeah. I just get really frustrated about how often I have to swallow my anger. But especially online, I feel like there’s a little bit of a safety net there where I can get angry, but even so, the angrier I get on the internet, the less inclined people seem to want to listen to what I have to say. So I modulate that too.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s the only kind of balancing that I’m good at.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, CP joke.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. No. But it’s valid. I’m not as online as you. Well, we do the show, but I don’t have that precedence that you do. But as a consumer of it, it’s interesting to see that anger spreads faster. I often wonder if, even though it seems to spread faster, if the message gets internalized. Because everyone enjoys seeing someone get angry, but I feel like maybe they might take less from it even if they enjoyed consuming it. I don’t actually know the answer to that, but that’s just a weird thing I think about when it comes to being online.
Emily Ladau:
No. I think that’s a really good point because I am the person as is I think everyone to sit there with your popcorn glued to the screen and watching the people be loud and angry online. And I have also been known to sometimes be the person who is loud and angry online. But at the same time, I think I have pushed people away in moments like that. And so the question becomes, do I express things through anger or do I try to be a bit more moderate in how I’m conveying something that is frustrating? I don’t think that I should have to be saying things about basic accessibility in the year 2024, but at the same time, if all I do is get angry about it, I think people are going to tune me out. So I try to find that happy medium and that I know is in and of itself something that I can do because I’m coming from a place of privilege and things that I say that I think are just moderately angry, I know that, for example, if a person of color said them, they would immediately be piled on for being angry and how dare they express themselves like that because God forbid people of color should have emotions.
Kyle Khachadurian:
How dare they? Yeah. No. That was sarcasm.
Emily Ladau:
Of course. Yeah.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I know you know that. I’m just saying that for our listeners.
Emily Ladau:
Technically it’s an access thing to indicate sarcasm.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. Well, this is not an episode on internet linguistics, but it is something I have noticed on platforms. So /S for sarcasm is as old as the internet itself, but there’s also /J for joke, HJ for half joke, and SRS for serious. And it’s for autistic people. But it’s so beneficial for everybody because … I don’t know. Maybe you don’t have this problem, but I can tell you I do. Sometimes it’s hard to tell if someone’s joking in text. And I’m not talking about people you know. Because if you know them, you know how they are in real life. But if you’re just scrolling, you have no idea if someone’s being serious or not. It’s very helpful. Way off-topic, but just-
Emily Ladau:
No. Is anything related to accessibility off-topic when we are in fact in The Accessible Stall?
Kyle Khachadurian:
A true.
Emily Ladau:
But yeah. No. It is an access thing. You should indicate meaning because otherwise it might be lost on some people, including me, who’s looking at your post being like, oh my God, you just said something and I have no idea what to make of it. Yeah. But what was I talking about?
Kyle Khachadurian:
You were saying how people of color will probably be assumed to be angry before you as a white person. And then you were saying sarcastically, God forbid a person of color feels frustrated or angry about something. And then we got on this topic about the indicators because you said it was an access thing.
Emily Ladau:
What a great recap of what I just said. Thank you so much.
Kyle Khachadurian:
You’re welcome.
Emily Ladau:
But I have to acknowledge in all of this that it’s a privilege for me to express my anger, and it’s a privilege for me to not express my anger in a way. And I feel like I can’t win either way, and that is with the layers of privilege that I have. I always know I’m not going to please everyone because on the flip side of the people who said that I’m too nice and that my book was too nice, for example, there are people who are like, “She is so angry. She’s so mean and judgmental.” And it’s like, sorry dude.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Your book is so … It’s neither nice nor not nice. It’s just an informative, friendly … I guess if you’re friendly you’re nice, but it’s just a book. I don’t understand. You don’t come across as anything. You come across as someone who knows what they’re talking about, and then they talk about it. I’m sorry. I’m not saying that as your number one fan, although I am. I’m just saying that as somebody who knows how to read and has read books and spoken to people before. Yeah, I don’t get it.
Emily Ladau:
Everyone’s going to interpret things in their own way.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s also true. That’s also true. I don’t know.
Emily Ladau:
See, maybe I should have used the /SRS or-
Kyle Khachadurian:
True.
Emily Ladau:
In my book.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s for the second and third prints that you could.
Emily Ladau:
Right. Exactly. We’re talking about anger specifically, but I just think that there’s something about tone in general to be had in this conversation. And also, I don’t want anyone misconstruing this conversation as tone policing. By no means am I saying that you got to control yourself on the internet.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, no, no, no, no. We’re talking about us. You do whatever you need to do. We’re just talking about ourselves.
Emily Ladau:
I have a but though.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Okay. So do I.
Emily Ladau:
Technicality. I think it also can do a disservice if you are a particular way all the time, and it gets misconstrued as being how an entire community feels.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I was going to say that exact same thing. I was going to say, I don’t know about you, but sometimes, and especially when I’m angry, I feel responsible. I am the spokesperson for all disabled people. Obviously I’m not. Nobody is. But the communities of color talk about that all the time. That’s something that I think we as disabled people … I can’t speak for you, but I can tell you right now, I feel that. When I am any emotion that’s not at a flat … I’m not neutral. I feel like the person I’m speaking to, if they don’t already know me as a person, will assume that this is how everybody who’s disabled is. Because they’re not going to say, oh, this is how everybody with CP is, or this is how this guy is. Because most people are ignorant to the technicality of the disability. And I don’t mean that in a necessarily negative way. They just don’t know. But I do feel that a lot. And that’s, I think part of why I try not to be angry all the time. God, you sometimes need to. It feels so good sometimes.
Emily Ladau:
I know. Sometimes I am just loud and mad and deal with it. I’m loud and mad. But also I think down the line, we are planning on doing more of a deep dive into the concept of the spokesperson for the disability community.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. Oh my God, I can’t wait for you guys to hear that. It’s going to be so good. We just have to have some logistics to plan out but I’m so excited for that one. That’s a little sneak peek into our schedule guys.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. So stay tuned for that. But it’s relevant to this conversation too, because I think that the more of a presence you have, the more that your attitude towards something is interpreted as this is how the entire disability community feels. And I really try very hard to avoid that because just because I’m mad about something doesn’t mean somebody else is, or maybe I’m not mad about something and somebody else is really mad about something. That’s happened too. There are times where … How do I say this? I’m like, can you all calm down? And meanwhile, everyone else around me is seemingly really mad about something and I’m just like, is this the hill we’re going to die on? It goes all the way back to the pre peeled fruit conversation. Everything goes back to that conversation.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I’ve matured a little bit. Just a little bit over these past couple of years. I used to be one of those people that … And in fact, I’m pretty sure that you can find a clip or two of me saying this exact thing. I used to be like a there’s always bigger fish to fry kind of guy. I still believe that. But I used to believe it in a way that’s like, I don’t understand why this person cares about this at all, when there’s a much bigger … And it’s like, no, no, no. That issue to that person matters a lot to that person and it matters to them. It might be small to us, and there might be larger issues to us and even to the community, but right now they’re … about pre peeled fruit or whatever. But you’re still right. I just wanted to point that out because I think a lot of people have or have had that mentality as well.
Emily Ladau:
I’m really glad you said that. That is how I try to perceive things. I do try to approach what experiences people are sharing from a nonjudgmental point of view, because I don’t know what’s going on in that person’s life. I don’t know why this particular thing is making them very angry. So I think maybe the thing that we have not said in this whole conversation is we’ve been talking about our expressions of anger and disabled people’s expressions of anger, but what we have not said is to anyone else, to non-disabled people or to other disabled people who are witnessing anger, can we find it within ourselves to give grace and to hold space for people and try to understand that the anger is coming from a place of we are still having the same flipping conversations that we were having decades and decades ago about the same basic things. So yeah, you’re right I’m angry.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Look at you. You’re so pro. That was a conclusion and a half.
Emily Ladau:
Is that my final takeaway? Do I have-
Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t know, but that seemed like a great place to ask you for one.
Emily Ladau:
I think my final takeaway probably then is just let people live. Be angry if you want to be. But also sometimes it’s not safe to be angry. And if people aren’t angry, don’t get angry at them for not being angry. My goodness. The-
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s a very good point actually. I love that.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. I don’t even think that that’s my final takeaway so much as just something I wish I had said at the beginning. Don’t get mad about how other people feel or do not feel. And again, that is coming from a position of privilege, but you being angry that another person is angry or not angry is not going to change their emotions or their outcomes.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Hear hear.
Emily Ladau:
And what’s your final takeaway?
Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t know. You’re so good at them. You are so good at them. My final takeaway is anger is a valid emotion. And this has been an episode of Emily and I critiquing how we express and are expected to act around things that make us angry. It is not a reflection on anybody else but us. We do acknowledge the fact that sometimes we get angry too.
Emily Ladau:
That’s a good takeaway. I don’t know why you said that only I’m good at this. Is that what you said? Because it’s not true.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t remember. It sounds like what I said, but it was probably something like that.
Emily Ladau:
It was good.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I already forgot. It’s gone.
Emily Ladau:
Do you know what’s so funny? I feel like the longer we’ve been podcasting, the more I’m just like, I have no idea if I said this in an episode. I’m lucky if I remember what we podcasted on last month.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Literally since I’m the one that edits this, as soon as when I hit the button to end it’s all gone and then I hear it again and I’m like, wow, we sound smart. I literally forget everything that we say and then I’m like, whoa, wow. There’s really something there. Good for us.
Emily Ladau:
It’s so funny because I don’t listen to them before you publish them, but as soon as you tell me that it’s live, I play it for myself. Then I end up looking for a soundbite and promoting it on social media or whatever. So I’m like, oh, let me listen to it. And I’m like, “Oh man, we really said all that? Wow. So interesting.” It’s like I wasn’t even present for this conversation that I just had.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And if you’d like to support this nonsense, go to patreon.com/theaccessiblestall. Just $1 a month ensures that all current and future episodes of The Accessible Stall remain what?
Emily Ladau:
Accessible.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s right. And might we say, you look great today. You look so good. I know, Steve. I know you’re watching this in your pizza stained shorts and shirt, but you know what? It looks great on you.
Emily Ladau:
You too, Brenda.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Especially you Brenda.
Emily Ladau:
I’m not sure. I just felt like Steve and Brenda were hanging out, you know?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Wow. Okay. Also, last thing before we go, I know we already told you, you look good today and don’t worry, we’ll remind you again in a second. But can you believe I think we’re going into year seven of podcasting? I don’t know how to do math. We started in 2016.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yep. This will be the beginning of our eighth year. So we just finished seven. So you’re right.
Emily Ladau:
Well, I don’t know how to count but-
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, you do. You were counting finished years. You got it.
Emily Ladau:
Okay. Okay. Great. So we are heading into year number eight. Although we started in October of 2016.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Okay. Okay. So it’s like seven and a half.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Anyway, thanks so much for listening and we’ll tell you one more time, you look so good today.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Especially you, Steve and Brenda.
Emily Ladau:
Thanks for listening. Bye.