Emily Ladau:
Hi, I’m Emily Ladau.

Kyle Khachadurian:
And I’m Kyle Khachadurian.

Emily Ladau:
And you’re listening to another episode of the Accessible Stall.

Kyle Khachadurian:
What are we going to talk about today, Emily? I’m dying to know.

Emily Ladau:
Oh my gosh. Okay. I’m so excited today because we’re wrapping up Disability Pride Month and we actually have a really cool special guest who is none other than the creator of the disability Pride flag.

Kyle Khachadurian:
What?

Emily Ladau:
I’m so pumped. I’m just going to say, before we get started, it took a little bit of internet sleuthing to get connected. So I feel a little bit like I was on my own mystery solving TV show to find this person, but now we have this person here and I’m so excited. So special guest, would you introduce yourself please?

Ann Magill:
Yes. My name is Ann Magill. I have cerebral palsy. I’m middle aged. I’ve been around a while. I was around in the year that ADA was finally passed. The ADA, by the way, is the Americans With Disabilities Act. That was 1990. I was in grad school at the time. So it’s been a while. It’s been a minute.

Emily Ladau:
I got to tell you, we were actually both born after the passage of the ADA. So this is a-

Ann Magill:
Oh.

Emily Ladau:
… fun, little generational conversation.

Ann Magill:
So I’m the grandma.

Emily Ladau:
Oh, no, not at all. Not at all.

Ann Magill:
Well, I don’t mind. I don’t mind being the elder. But I-

Emily Ladau:
So tell me where you are from and also a little bit more about yourself. What do you like to do? What should our listeners know about you?

Ann Magill:
Well, I grew up in New York State in the Hudson Valley. I’m currently living in Virginia. I’m a writer. Most of my writing is on the internet now, but I’ve done some poetry and essays and some short fiction. Yeah, mostly these days, I’m just writing on the internet, mostly ranting about disability and social justice and politics.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Sounds familiar.

Ann Magill:
Especially since 2016, in the last six years or so. It’s been-

Emily Ladau:
We are right there with you. We have been similarly ranting and talking about a lot of what’s going on in the world. We’re glad that we’re able to connect with you over that because we’re very passionate about talking about what’s happening, and it sounds like you are too.

Ann Magill:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s our lives. You know?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.

Ann Magill:
Who is it that said the personal is political?

Emily Ladau:
Absolutely.

Ann Magill:
Yeah. One of those leftist people.

Kyle Khachadurian:
We’ll look it up.

Ann Magill:
It might have been Gloria Steinem or somebody like that. Anyway. Yeah. So if you live it, you have to be passionate about it. You know?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Go going off that. And by the way, as somebody who has CP who is currently living in Virginia right this very second.

Ann Magill:
Oh, really?

Kyle Khachadurian:
I’m already a fan. Yeah. I noticed your area code and I was like, “Yeah.” So tell us what Disability Pride means to you.

Ann Magill:
Oh, some people say that Pride is, “Hooray, I’m this. I’m happy to be X. I’m happy to be gay or I’m happy to be disabled or my life is great. And I’m proud of…” My thing is that Pride is about, “I may not be happy about my identity now because of life circumstances, but I deserve to be happy.” I think that’s the core of it, recognizing that you deserve happiness, even if you’re a marginalized person, whatever your marginalization is.

Emily Ladau:
I love that so much, and I really agree with you. It’s not necessarily about always saying that disability, for example, is sunshine and rainbows and unicorns all the time. Because it can be pretty challenging, but at the same time you deserve the right to embrace yourself and your identity and to be proud of your presence on this planet.

Ann Magill:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
So it’s complex.

Ann Magill:
Right.

Emily Ladau:
It’s messy.

Ann Magill:
Yeah, it’s messy. And to let yourself get mad that the only ramp is around the garbage dump, around the back with the garbage bins.

Emily Ladau:
Amen to that.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.

Ann Magill:
You know?

Emily Ladau:
I’ve spent far too much time near dumpsters, just trying to get into a building.

Ann Magill:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
So we would love to hear the back story of the disability pride flag, because I feel like in the last few years it’s become kind of ubiquitous and I’ve been seeing the color scheme and I’ve been seeing the flag really picking up steam. And I think-

Ann Magill:
Well-

Emily Ladau:
… a lot of people were wondering and coming to me at least and saying, “Hey, you know who created the flag? Do you know much about this person?” And I was like, “I’m going to find this person.” So can you tell us what sparked your idea to create it?

Ann Magill:
Okay, well, the desire for the flag started with the local 20th anniversary celebration. You can’t see it, but I’m doing air quotes right now, for the 20th anniversary of the ADA in 2010. It was at the local independent living center and it was advertised as, “There will be music and a history show and food and more. Have a gathering place.” And you arrive and it’s all in the basement of this one building.

Emily Ladau:
Oh no.

Ann Magill:
The music is piped, Top 40 hits, just played on repeat over a loudspeaker. The slide show is a PowerPoint presentation on the wall of the basement. It doesn’t even have the local history of that particular independent living center. It’s just generic facts. The whole thing was like three hours long and it was all inside the walls of this filming. And I’m like, “Wait a minute. I thought it was going to be a concert in the park with the stage and speakers.” You know, people speaking and doing a presentation so that the general public would be able to come and see. And it was all hidden away in this institutional office building.

Ann Magill:
That’s the opposite of what the ABA is about. That’s like the un-celebration. I was like, “Damn it, I want a parade. I want a flag. I want a flag to wave.” That kind of stuck in the back of my mind for a few years and it was kind of running around in my head. I was playing around with ideas for ship signal flags, combining designs of different flags that already existed, like a Rebus thing and kind of playing with doodling.

Ann Magill:
Then in 2016, 6 years afterward, I woke up to the morning news at 5:00 AM that… You may want to do a trigger warning for this, when you edit it later to tell people if they want to skip ahead. But in 2016, I heard the news at 5:00 AM that there had been a mass slaughter of disabled people in Japan. And it was the largest mass murder in modern Japanese history. A former employee of a residential home for the disabled had broken in the middle of the night and systematically killed, I think it was, 26 people, slicing their throats while they slept.

Ann Magill:
That was bad enough that this had happened. Oh, and he deliberately did it on the day of the ADA’s anniversary. He chose that day to do the murder because he thought all disabled people needed to die unless they were youthful. That was bad enough, but it had dropped off from all major news before the evening cycle, before the 5:00 news in the evening. So it hadn’t even been on the news for a full day and they’d moved onto other stuff. That’s when I was, gone beyond “I want a flag” to [inaudible 00:11:15] of swears, “We need a flag. We need to be visible.” Now that started a three year process of actually designing the flag and trying to come up with how I wanted to represent this rage and sorrow and hope and strength and “Goddamit, we’re here. We exist.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Can you talk us through that? I would love to hear that story. And also how, if at all, you brought other people in the disability community to help develop that design.

Ann Magill:
Well, I tried for three years, I tried. So when I started, the first idea I had was to have a black triangle, which was the Nazi symbol that they used. Because they used a pink triangle for gay people and those were the people who were put in the concentration camps for being gay. They had the black triangle for people who they called people malingerers, people who claimed they couldn’t work. So they were put in and they were put to the concentration camps for that. So I was going to put the black triangle and have a white flag with the black triangle in the corner where the US stars are, and then have a rainbow of light coming through that, like light through a prism, the rest of the flag on the white flag. But I thought that would be a cool design.

Ann Magill:
But then I realized, A, if the flag is mostly white, then when the wind is not blowing, it’ll look like a surrender flag. And two, I do not want to put the Nazi symbol in the place of honor on the flag. So instead I just made the whole flag black and made the stripes cutting across it. But my first design idea was to make the stripes zigzag, to represent how disabled people have to maneuver around all the barriers we face. We have to go this way and then we have to go that way, and then we have to go this way and then we have to go that way. And that’s how we move through the world.

Ann Magill:
We’re always finding a crooked path because we’re always maneuvering around disabilities. I kept trying to get people to react to this. They kept saying, “Yeah, that’s cool. That’s cool, that looks good.” But I didn’t get suggestions back from that. It was just, “That’s cool.” So I finally decided to put that design in the public domain in 2019. Then last year, someone found it and put the design on a popular Reddit subreddit and it suddenly got like 20,000, 30,000 views, like in a week.

Emily Ladau:
I think that was when it came into our consciousness really.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yep.

Ann Magill:
That was just of July last year.

Emily Ladau:
Right.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. I think that’s when I-

Ann Magill:
Right, right. And it was the zigzag design, but then on my Tumblr, and my name was mentioned, my Tumblr ID was mentioned on one of these posts and it was, “Oh my God, this flag is terrible. It’s causing epileptic seizures.”

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. We wanted to hear more about that because we noticed that there’s been a change now. So the flag is no longer its original zigzag design.

Ann Magill:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
Why were those changes made?

Ann Magill:
Well, because the thing is, I didn’t know about this until it was already caused a problem. Somebody posted the design and it got like 20,000 views. The thing is, that the way I had it, I had the really bright colors on the black, with black stripes between the colors. The thing is, that when you’re scrolling and it appears on your phone or on your computer screen and it scrolls, it registers on the retina like a flicker, like a flashing light. Because it goes white bright, dark bright, dark bright, dark bright as people are scrolling past it. That was enough because flickering triggered epilepsy in people. And other people said, “I can’t look at it because it looks like my migraine aura.” And other people said, “I can’t look at it because it gives me anxiety and I have autism and I can’t…” So it was a moment of panic for me, because here was this flag meant to represent the disability community and disabled people couldn’t look at it. So that was a crisis moment.

Emily Ladau:
But it seems like you navigated it pretty well?

Ann Magill:
Yeah. Well, I piped up and said, “Okay.” I owned it. I didn’t get mad. I said, “Okay, this is a mistake. How can we fix it? What if I made these changes?” And because I said, how can we fix this, and didn’t get upset and didn’t get possessive, people started anonymously offering suggestions. “Maybe if you took out the black stripes between the colors. Maybe if you soften the colors, so they weren’t so bright.” Then people started going back and forth and experimenting and posting their own variations, and finally we figured out, take out the zigzags, take out the black stripes between the colors and soften everything. At least when it’s online, the bright colors don’t seem to be a problem if it’s in physical media, like on a shirt or on an actual flag, the bright colors don’t seem to be a problem.

Ann Magill:
But when you’re staring at it on a computer screen, that’s when it needs to be softened, I think. Because most of the people said, “Yeah, I have no problem when I see it like a photograph of a physical thing, it doesn’t [inaudible 00:18:27] a problem. But it’s just when it’s on the screen.” So we softened the colors, we took out the zigzags and then somebody said, “You know what? The red and the green are next to each other. That’s a problem for people with red-green color blindness.” I was like, “Yeah, duh.” So we rearranged the order of the colors. So yeah, it’s in the public domain in my name, but it’s really a bunch of people came together to fix it. That’s why I think this design is even better

Kyle Khachadurian:
Out of curiosity… Oh, finish, I’m sorry.

Ann Magill:
Yeah. I think it’s even better this way because it truly represents the community because the community came together to solve a problem.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Is that why you put it in the public domain or do you have… I’m just curious.

Ann Magill:
No, I put it in the public domain… I put the first one in the public domain too because, one, flags should belong to the public. Some people disagree, but I personally is my philosophy, if I want this to represent the community, it has to belong to the community.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s beautiful.

Ann Magill:
I’ll copyright the stuff I write, the words I write or other individual pieces of art. But this community flag is a community flag. It belongs to the people. And two, I want there to be merch. I want stuff with this flag on it, but I don’t have the resources, the temperament or the energy to make the stuff. And I don’t want to negotiate people, not making stuff because they’re afraid they don’t have my permission.

Emily Ladau:
We are so curious to know if there have been any instances of seeing the flag out and about in the world that have really surprised you or that have stood out for being creative. Because we are all about cool merch, so we’d love to know what’s been something that’s been like, “Wow, that’s awesome.”

Ann Magill:
Not yet. But there is independent company online called Flags For Good that contacted me earlier this month and said, “Hey, can we sell your flag design? We want to make sure we got the flag design right.” So that’s ready for pre-order and it’s called FlagsForGood.com. So they’ve got a whole bunch of flags for different groups and different movements and redesigned state flags that are actually good, stuff like that. So it’s not on merch that I know of yet, but I hope it will be soon.

Emily Ladau:
Well, I can tell you that I have seen the colors spreading everywhere. I’ve seen them being [inaudible 00:21:55] across social media now.

Ann Magill:
Well that’s good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So should I talk about the symbolism?

Emily Ladau:
We would love for-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Go for it.

Emily Ladau:
… you to tell us all about-

Ann Magill:
Okay.

Emily Ladau:
… what everything means on the flag.

Ann Magill:
All right. Because yeah, it starts in the top corner in, in that place where the stars are in the US flag and the hammer and sickle is in the old Soviet flag. Yeah, that corner of the flag because that’s generally where, in flag language, is the highest place of honor. So that’s where it starts and it moves across the flag diagonally. The diagonal is important. The zigzag is gone, but I wanted to keep the diagonal to contrast with the horizontal ceilings and vertical walls behind which so many disabled people are trapped. For example, Medicare will only pay for aides if you need them inside your home. But if you need them for your job, you’re not eligible, if you work outside the home. So the whole system of ableism just sort of wants to keep us inside our own homes. So I wanted something to cut across that. So that’s the diagonal. The five colors… I should describe the flag, shouldn’t I?

Emily Ladau:
Well, I think that would probably be helpful from a visual description standpoint. And we’ll also make sure that we include all of this.

Ann Magill:
Well, we all assume people know what this looks like, but it’s mostly a black flag and across the middle diagonally is five stripes from the… Well, if you’re reading left to right it’s top right to lower left, and it’s five parallel stripes. Starting from the bottom is red, gold, white, blue, and green. So it starts in the top corner because that’s where the honor is. It ends at the other end of the flag where it’s waving in the wind because that represents the outside world. Diagonal because it’s cutting across barriers. The black represents the anger and mourning over the eugenics and the neglect that disabled people have to fight against.

Ann Magill:
The five colors represent… The red is physical disabilities. The gold is neurodivergence because the chemical symbol for gold is AU-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Clever.

Ann Magill:
… and autism starts with a AU. So it’s a visual pun. The white is invisible disabilities and disabilities that have not yet been diagnosed. That was something that someone specifically asked for. Could you please put in a stripe for invisible disabilities? So that’s the white stripe in the middle. The blue stripe is mental illness, anxiety and depression. And the green stripe is sensory disabilities, like deafness, blindness, lack of smell, lack of taste, audio processing disorder, all that, all sensory disabilities.

Ann Magill:
Those are the six standard colors you can find in any standard flag. I chose to go with all six because, like the Olympic flag, which also has all six, it’s a community that’s based on experience rather than ethnicity or geography. A nation flag represents a place or a language flag represents a language, but the Olympic flag is international and this is also international because the disability community spans political boundaries.

Emily Ladau:
And the entire globe.

Ann Magill:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, as someone with cerebral palsy, I have more in common with someone from cerebral palsy in India than I do with an athlete, with my next door neighbor, at least culturally. We share a culture simply by dealing with being disabled in a norm-made world.

Emily Ladau:
Well, we love hearing the really incredible thought process that went into the design of the flag and the way that it takes into account the fact that disability is not monolithic and that there’s so many different experiences of disability, but there are also places of common ground for all of us. So it’s just been really great to hear.

Ann Magill:
Yeah. The reason the stripes are parallel with each other is to represent that solidarity that we’re all in this together. But yeah.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Have you designed flags before this? You’ve clearly put so much thought into this.

Ann Magill:
No, but as a writer, I’m always thinking of metaphor.

Kyle Khachadurian:
True.

Ann Magill:
My first love when I was six years old was writing poetry. So I’m always thinking of metaphor and symbolism and my favorite genres are fantasy and fairy tale. So that’s what I’ve been writing since I was like seven years old. So I [inaudible 00:29:10] “How can I take those old ideas and make it a picture? How can I make it a picture?” If people complain that it’s not a disability ramp, because it doesn’t name a wheelchair on it, I can always say… It’s not a disability flag because it doesn’t have a wheelchair on it, I can always say that slant is a ramp.

Kyle Khachadurian:
There you go. Wheelchair users have the international symbol of access. Okay? It’s about time everyone else had a symbol too.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah, honestly, I’m totally thrilled to see representation beyond just a tiny little white stick figure thing in a wheelchair against a blue background.

Ann Magill:
Yeah. I mean, well, that’s good. I mean, it’s a good symbol just because it’s easy to see when you’re driving by in a car or you’re walking, you’re looking for something quick. It’s a good quick symbol for what it is and you don’t need to know the language. But yeah. Yeah. I hate that that’s become the symbol for all disabilities because we all have different experiences and we can’t expect to be all the same. So yeah.

Kyle Khachadurian:
So tell us what are your hopes for the flag, right? How do you wish for it to be used? What’s your ideal? What would make you the happiest, if you woke up tomorrow and saw it on CNN or something, what’s your version of that?

Ann Magill:
I think I’d love for it to become generally recognized outside the disability community. Just because it seems like disabled people are always talking to each other. I love preaching to the choir, but the people who aren’t disabled, they’re the ones who need to know this stuff. Yeah. I’d love for it to be included in the emoji app.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Ooh. That’s a big win. We should-

Emily Ladau:
Oh, that would be so cool.

Kyle Khachadurian:
We should figure out how to do that.

Emily Ladau:
Petition starting.

Ann Magill:
They’ve got the rainbow flag in the emojis. They’ve got all the-

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s true.

Ann Magill:
They’ve got the rainbow flag. They’ve got national flags. I haven’t looked, but I bet they have the Olympic flag.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t know, but probably.

Ann Magill:
Yeah, they’ve got some sort of symbol like that. Speaking of which, there is another disability flag. There’s a second one and I don’t want my flag to overshadow it completely. I found it after we discovered the problems with my first design and I was going through that crisis. There’s a second disability flag. It was designed in 2017 by, I don’t remember his name. Maybe you can look it up. It’s on Wikipedia. Oh, and my old dangerous flag design is on the Wikipedia page too. I keep asking them to take it down, but they won’t because they cited the news articles from 2020 that first started airing it and then news article trumps me. So yeah.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, we can use this as a source from the author’s mouth herself.

Ann Magill:
Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle Khachadurian:
We’ll see if we can make that happen.

Ann Magill:
Right. Well, the author’s mouth, Wikipedia is weird because if you are the author, you’re considered too biased. It has to be somebody other than the author who says it.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That is weird.

Emily Ladau:
Well, then we have a lot of petition-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, we’ll say it.

Emily Ladau:
… to start right now.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.

Ann Magill:
Yeah, yeah. But there’s a flag that came along first in 2017 and it’s on the Wikipedia page. His name is on the Wikipedia page, and he presented it to the UN, display on their International Day of Persons with Disabilities, which is December 3rd, by the way. You want to know your disability holidays. December 3rd is the International Day for the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. And it’s three horizontal stripes in gold, silver and bronze. It’s modeled after the three winning medals of the Olympics.

Ann Magill:
It’s called the Overcoming Flag. Now, as I said, when I found… I have a Tumblr post, that if I’d known that this flag had existed in 2017, before I’d come up with my own design, I might have been satisfied with it. I might have said, “Okay, this is my flag. I’ll fly it because it had already been accepted by the UN.”

Ann Magill:
But at that point it was still so close to that mass murder that had prompted me to design the flag in the first place. It was so close, and it was still pulling on the trope of the worthy disabled person who’s winning medals and overcoming things. And I just hate that. I just hate the cudgel that is sometimes used against disabled people. “Overcoming your disability” and “striving,” “So what if you’re in a wheelchair? Go climb a mountain.”

Emily Ladau:
Oh my gosh, we talk about this all the time, because this is our least favorite narrative.

Ann Magill:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
So I’m glad that you made your design. And also I think the other thing is, if there’s more than a billion disabled people in the world, it’s okay if there’s more than one flag design and more than one perspective.

Ann Magill:
Right. Right.

Emily Ladau:
Because everybody has their own perspective.

Ann Magill:
Yeah. What I wanted to say, the reason I’m bringing this up, I don’t want my flag to overshadow that one because this flag was also designed by a person with disabilities.

Emily Ladau:
Right.

Ann Magill:
So it’s also from within the community and as a UN flag, it kind of makes sense. For a flag that focuses on national laws and national rights and national identity within the UN, a flag based on the Olympics, which is also national identity, makes sense. So I hope the two flags can be in concert with each other. One to represent our legal rights as citizens of countries and the other to represent our pride as a global community, beyond our national rights. Does that make sense?

Emily Ladau:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that it’s really valid and important to recognize that there’s more than one way to represent disability and more than one experience and more than one perspective.

Ann Magill:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
While I’m obviously in agreement with you that I don’t really love the narrative of overcoming, I recognize that there’s a lot of cultural background that goes into how we experience disabilities. So it makes sense that there’s multiple ways of representing it.

Ann Magill:
Right.

Emily Ladau:
I do think that there’s room for harmony there, for multiple representations.

Ann Magill:
Right, right. So I’d love for that flag, for when people put in disability rights, their disability flag, for that to come up and be the top hit on your search engine hit around December 3rd, which is the International Day of the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. And then my flag around July, which is the Pride month or Wrath month. We have Pride month in June and Wrath month in July.

Emily Ladau:
So tell us, as we’re kind of about to wrap up this conversation, because you’ve shared so much with us, we’d love to know if there’s anything that you want to leave our listeners with, any final takeaways, or if you want them to find you online anywhere, let us know what you want to leave everyone with, as they’re thinking about Disability Pride Month. And as they’re thinking about the flag.

Ann Magill:
Yeah. Well, I like to remind people that, what I said at the beginning, that Pride is not just, “Hooray for who I am.” But, “I deserve to be happy and I deserve to be here.” It’s not that Pride is… Okay, here’s what I want to say. That the thing about disability being a social construct. You talked about that.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes.

Ann Magill:
Is that, to take away the shame of being disabled, to not let people shame you. So it’s not that, if we could remove all the barriers, have every menu in every restaurant in Braille and have ramps up every doorway and elevators that work all the time and sign language interpreters everywhere and quiet rooms for autistic people. That doesn’t mean that our disabilities will go away. We’ll still struggle, but don’t let yourself be shamed because things are difficult.

Kyle Khachadurian:
We love that.

Ann Magill:
Being free of disability, living in a world where we get beyond the social stigma of disability doesn’t mean making everything easy for everybody, because conflicting access needs are a thing. Nobody’s going to have universal access all the time because conflicting access needs. What makes something accessible to me may make it inaccessible to somebody else, but just get rid of the shame. Get rid of the dehumanization and make that the focus, I think. Nothing is going to be easy all the time, but just stop shaming people because it’s difficult.

Kyle Khachadurian:
We couldn’t agree more. I just want to point out, anyone who’s listened to our show in the past knows that I think probably the one thing Emily and I talk about the most is conflicting access needs. So I’m very happy to hear that you’ve brought that up. I think we just want to thank you for coming on. This has been so cool. And Emily and I, we can see each other, and we’re fan girling right now. We are so happy to have had you on our show and yeah, you’ve been great. Thank you.

Ann Magill:
All right. Well, thank you so much for inviting me. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you and have a good rest of Pride month. We got the 26th coming up, which is the anniversary. Was it the-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, it’s like our Christmas.

Ann Magill:
The 32nd. You know what? The anniversary for the June Pride month, the Stonewall Riot was also June 26th. So maybe we should just make it the 26th of every month.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I agree.

Ann Magill:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
We celebrate being proud of who we are.

Ann Magill:
The 26th.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Who needs names of months? Exactly. Pride day.

Ann Magill:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
Well, this episode is actually scheduled to come out on, if we can make it happen, the 26th. So you’re going to be celebrating Disability Pride and ADA day, right along with us and our listeners on that day.

Ann Magill:
Well, I’m so happy to hear that. And I hope you get this edited and by the time it comes out, be resting with a cool glass of lemonade or whatever cool beverage of your choice in the shade.

Emily Ladau:
Absolutely. Stay cool. Ann, thank you. You are lovely and your contribution to Disability Pride is really powerful. And the fact that you’ve collaborated with the community makes it even more powerful. So thank you for sharing of yourself and your story. We’re just so thrilled that we were able to talk to you today.

Ann Magill:
Thank you so much.

Emily Ladau:
That was so much fun. I think on that note, we can officially say Happy Disability Pride Month. Whoo.

Kyle Khachadurian:
And might we say, you look great today.

Emily Ladau:
You look better than usual today.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Which is incredible because you always look great.

Emily Ladau:
But today, you are looking fab. I hope you’re feeling fab. I hope you’re celebrating yourself and celebrating the disability community. Also, what can people do if they want to help make The Accessible Stall accessible?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, Emily, thank you for asking. They can go to patreon.com/TheAccessibleStall. Just $1 a month ensures [inaudible 00:44:49] episode of the Accessible Stall will be made accessible [inaudible 00:44:58].

Emily Ladau:
We [inaudible 00:45:00] and you should too.

Kyle Khachadurian:
But not as much as we love you. Goodnight, everybody.

Emily Ladau:
We love you so much. Thanks for listening. Bye.