Emily Ladau:
Hi, I’m Emily Ladau.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And I’m Kyle Khachadurian.
Emily Ladau:
And you’re listening to another episode of The Accessible Stall.
Kyle Khachadurian:
What are we going to talk about today, Emily?
Emily Ladau:
Back up. Back up a second. There’s something different about this episode.
Kyle Khachadurian:
There is?
Emily Ladau:
Yeah.
Kyle Khachadurian:
What’s different?
Emily Ladau:
We’re in the same room!
Kyle Khachadurian:
What the [inaudible 00:00:24]. You’re here.
Emily Ladau:
I am.
Kyle Khachadurian:
With me.
Emily Ladau:
I’m right across from you.
Kyle Khachadurian:
In Seattle.
Emily Ladau:
Really?
Kyle Khachadurian:
I can like…
Emily Ladau:
Oh, my God.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Touch. Touch. Ew, it feels so normal.
Emily Ladau:
Like your hand is there.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes.
Emily Ladau:
Nice to meet you.
Kyle Khachadurian:
We’re shaking hands right now.
Emily Ladau:
We are.
Kyle Khachadurian:
This audio description.
Emily Ladau:
I could just…
Kyle Khachadurian:
She’s going to boop my nose.
Emily Ladau:
Boop.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh my God. She’s done it.
Emily Ladau:
I’m going to pinch your cheek.
Kyle Khachadurian:
She’s going to pinch my cheeks like an old Jewish grandma.
Emily Ladau:
I can’t even.
Kyle Khachadurian:
She’s going to say that I’m freezing my [inaudible 00:00:56] off.
Emily Ladau:
We’re never going to record this episode. Don’t stop this. Wait. Come here. Let me pinch your cheek.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Look. She’s doing it. Ah, there you go. I can feel it bruising already.
What are we going to talk about today, Emily?
Emily Ladau:
Oh, okay. We actually got an email from a listener who saw… Do they call them threads on Reddit?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
I’m not Cool. How do you do fellow kids.
Who saw a Reddit thread about a guy who was dating a girl who uses a wheelchair and they had been together for a couple of months and he came to Reddit because he couldn’t figure out if he was allowed to ask why she uses a wheelchair. They’ve been together for a few months and he had no idea why she’s a wheelchair user.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I find that very funny.
Emily Ladau:
But he’s clearly cool with it.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. You don’t stick around for months not be at least a little cool with it.
Emily Ladau:
But I have so many questions. Why did this person not disclose? I guess it’s not that you owe information to the person that you’re dating, but at some point I would think it would come up.
Kyle Khachadurian:
How has it not come up?
Emily Ladau:
Anyway, I’m trying to put myself in this girl’s wheelchair and think about if I would disclose right away all of the information. Clearly, it’s obvious that I’m in a wheelchair.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Right? Would I say, “Oh, it’s because I have Larsen syndrome and it’s a genetic joint and muscle disorder.” Because then I would be getting into a conversation about, “Oh, it’s a genetic disability and I can pass it on to our future children.” But, “Oh, I don’t really want to have children.” And you know what?
Kyle Khachadurian:
All this before we had salad.
Emily Ladau:
Woo. Also, I really hope nobody who tries to date me in the future listens to all this because I blew up my own spot just now.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Just redirect them to this episode. Why are you in this wheelchair?
Emily Ladau:
Well, please listen to episode 100 and…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Something.
Emily Ladau:
We’ve done so many episodes of this podcast.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes.
Emily Ladau:
We’ve been podcasting for a long time.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Since Oranges.
Emily Ladau:
2016.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Wow. Obama was president.
Emily Ladau:
But not for long.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No.
Emily Ladau:
You know what? Hold on. Can we talk about the fact that we’re together in person for the first time in…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, two years since we’ve… Yeah. Two years in real life, but we’re in person podcasting for the first time since we were back in Virginia for the “I’m determined” people.
Emily Ladau:
Oh my gosh. We only podcasted there because I fell and then I almost fell again.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
That’s a great episode.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And then they gave us a box of chocolates.
Emily Ladau:
The chocolates could’ve saved my life, actually.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes.
Emily Ladau:
Because then Kyle was like, “Emily, do you have chocolate on your ear?” And I was like, “No, Kyle, why would there be chocolate on my ear?” And do you know what it was?
Kyle Khachadurian:
What was it, Emily?
Emily Ladau:
It was cancer.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. That’s not a joke.
Emily Ladau:
No, it’s really not. I don’t know why I said it like that.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, no. Because I thought it was chocolate, but it turns out to be the opposite of chocolate.
Emily Ladau:
Is cancer the opposite of chocolate?
Kyle Khachadurian:
I mean, I guess not if you don’t like chocolate. I was thinking of something like, cancer’s like the worst.
Emily Ladau:
Right.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Right? So what’s the best?
Emily Ladau:
Chocolate.
Kyle Khachadurian:
But not if you’re allergic to chocolate or don’t like chocolate. What you can do in those situations is you can seek some help.
Emily Ladau:
If you don’t like chocolate?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
You can also seek help if you see a mole on your body. I’m pointing to the microphone, like I’m lecturing…
Kyle Khachadurian:
The microphone?
Emily Ladau:
… You all, but get your skin checked because melanoma is no joke. I had to have it cut off. A whole surgery to get it cut off my ear.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That is amazing and you’re welcome.
Emily Ladau:
Thank you so much…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Just kidding.
Emily Ladau:
… For saving my life.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s such a weird… You show me that Reddit thread and I just thought it was unbelievable because I can tell you in my life, I’ve dated people and it’s been a while since it’s come up, but I have the luxury of not looking as disabled as someone who uses a wheelchair. I’m not saying that to brag. I’m just saying it’s harder to notice.
Emily Ladau:
Okay, but don’t you think people would eventually just be like, “Hey, can we talk about this?” On either side.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. Yes.
Emily Ladau:
On either side. At some point something’s got to give.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Absolutely.
Emily Ladau:
Either the wheelchair user’s going to be like, “Hey, I just wanted to tell you a little bit more about my disability,” or the non-disabled partner, assuming that the other partner is non-disabled. Which, you know what? I think I need to take that back because you could both be disabled. Can you imagine? What’s that movie with Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Mr. And Mrs. Smith.
Emily Ladau:
Mr. And Mrs. Smith where they’re both trying to kill each other.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
You could both be disabled and you could both be trying to figure it out and neither one of you wants to talk about why you’re actually disabled. I don’t actually think that’s reality though because I feel like if there were two disabled people, then you would probably want to talk about it, right? I’m making a lot of assumptions here.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, you would. I would. I would.
Emily Ladau:
You were also in a relationship [inaudible 00:06:47].
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s what I’m saying. I know I would. But you would too, I assume, right?
Emily Ladau:
Absolutely.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
A hundred percent. I don’t know if I’ve said this on the podcast, but I imagine I must have at some point in a hundred episodes, before I dated my first very serious boyfriend who was a wheelchair user. I was like, there’s no way I’m dating someone with a disability. Absolutely not. Then instead, I dated someone with a disability.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And look how that turned out. Your instincts were right the whole time.
Emily Ladau:
We dated for a little over two years. It was fine. Now, he’s with another wheelchair user.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Also fine.
Kyle Khachadurian:
There you go.
Emily Ladau:
Whatever. It’s fine. Okay. Moving on from my sad dating life. Yeah. I feel like I would want to talk about it though.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s a bit weird because on the one hand, I don’t think that you’re entitled to know anything. And I also don’t think that if you’re the person, you certainly shouldn’t be compelled to tell someone about whatever medical condition you may or may not have. If I’m in the wheelchair, if I’m the wheelchair user at some point in this scenario, at some point I’m going to be like, “Why hasn’t he asked me yet?”
Emily Ladau:
Oh, really? Oh, I hadn’t thought about that.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Or I would probably find it funny. It’s been 60 days and he still hasn’t even brought it up. I wonder how long it’s going to be. Does he even see this wheelchair? Are we sure he isn’t blind?
Emily Ladau:
The sign, days without incidents.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes, exactly.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Days without asking about disability.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Make a little tick mark.
Emily Ladau:
I guess for me, it’s such a part of my experience that I would be pretty open about it from the jump, I think.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, me too. I understand hiding the why, but not after a couple months. Even if I had my own reasons for doing it, I would want to tell you at that point, personally.
Emily Ladau:
So the Reddit post said something about maybe there was a trauma or something and that’s why she didn’t want to talk about it. Maybe there was just no natural way for it to come up. At one point, I think the guy who posted talked about helping her up a ramp because she was like, “Hey, can you just help me up a ramp?” Or something like that. Then, they talked about ramps for a couple of minutes and accessibility, but that didn’t lead to a deeper conversation.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Okay. You had your chance, brother. I don’t know what to tell you. You can’t have a conversation about ramps and I don’t know… Maybe he just doesn’t care. I’m a curious person. I would want to know.
Emily Ladau:
I would not think someone asking me, who I was dating, meant that they cared in the sense that they were bothered by it. I would think like, oh, they want to know more about what makes me who I am.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, no, I meant care.
Emily Ladau:
I knew what you meant. I was thinking…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
… Just because you’re asking about it doesn’t mean that you’re bothered by it. I would hope.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I just can’t imagine it not coming up. How far does that go? You’re going to be rolling down the aisle and something like, “Hey, honey, can I ask you something real quick?” Yeah, no, I do. Just hold on. What’s the deal with that? Come on, what are we doing?
Emily Ladau:
Finally, do you take this person…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but just one second.
Emily Ladau:
We should probably clarify this before we get married. Yeah. At some point I feel like it needs to come up. Also, for the sake of talking about whether you want to have a family. That needs to be a conversation that you have at some point with someone that you are partnering with. Not that you need to have a family. You both need to be on the same page about whether you want a family.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
And whether your disability factors into family planning or not. I feel like it would be irresponsible if I didn’t eventually… Not at the beginning, but talk to a partner honestly about where I’m at in terms of what I want family-wise and how my disability plays into that. You have to be honest with the person that you’re dating.
Kyle Khachadurian:
But is not telling your partner details the same thing as not being… I can’t understand not giving some sort of reason. That to me is kind of unacceptable, but I can understand not going into details. I can understand… You could say I had an accident at 21 and leave it there or something like that.
Emily Ladau:
Oh sure. I mean, if it’s a trauma. If it’s a trauma.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Or anything really. I mean, I’m using a trauma in this example. You can tell as much or as little as you want, but you got to say something.
Emily Ladau:
Then I wonder if people are going to say there’s a flip side, which is then you’re putting the burden on the disabled person to disclose information. But this is really different. This is your partner.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Also, there’s no burden. I just want to know. I would just want to know. Also, if my partner’s in a wheelchair, I kind of assume at some point they’d want to tell me, but clearly this person didn’t.
Emily Ladau:
I almost wonder if the person who is the wheelchair user in this scenario is just like, “I’m going to wait it out.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, it’s like a game of chicken. See how long this guy takes and she’s got a log book with tally marks in it.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. This is a hard conversation for me though, because I’m not really sure that I could dodge people knowing about my disability because you can just Google me.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
You know what I mean?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, not all of us have that problem, Emily.
Emily Ladau:
Well, also is a big problem.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s true.
Emily Ladau:
Literally, all you need to do is Google me and you can find out what my disability is. Then, you could Google my disability and you will see a picture [inaudible 00:13:34].
Kyle Khachadurian:
I was going to say, even if you somehow knew your disability without knowing your name, it would be on the NIH website. That’s not a joke. Everyone Google it.
Emily Ladau:
The thing is, I wasn’t thinking the day that I let my mom take a picture of me for that.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Did you know that that’s what it was for?
Emily Ladau:
I think I did, but I didn’t really process that I was going to be the face of Larsen syndrome.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s hilarious.
Emily Ladau:
So I was just wearing a T-shirt. I was a total mess. I would’ve fixed my hair and put some lipstick on…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Nope.
Emily Ladau:
… And pulled it together, but no, it’s me looking my absolute best in a T-shirt. Showing off my Larsen syndrome feature. I have no anonymity and there are no secrets. You can find out about me on the internet, but hypothetically, let’s just say I went on a date with a guy, but he didn’t know my last name, so it was much harder for him to find information about me. Although, you could also type Emily wheelchair and I honestly bet it would come up. Can we do that right now?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Hold on.
Emily Ladau:
Live Google with Kyle and Emily.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Keep going. Keep talking.
Emily Ladau:
I really actually want to know what…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Emily Wheelchair.
Emily Ladau:
Oh boy. Is this going to happen? The way that Google works, it might give you information about me because you know me. Is it not?
Kyle Khachadurian:
No. No.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, thank goodness.
Kyle Khachadurian:
But you know what?
Emily Ladau:
What?
Kyle Khachadurian:
You are one, two, three, four, five down is a tweet from you, but that’s way far down. That’s way far down on Google.
Emily Ladau:
That’s still… But then you can find my picture. That’s a giveaway.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, but it’s not… It’s just a Twitter link.
Emily Ladau:
What tweet is it?
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s a good question.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, it was when I totally owned an airline.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, it was… You’re replying to the AP style book.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, I am?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, because there was another one where I saw something about wheelchairs not being [inaudible 00:15:34] on planes.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Right.
Emily Ladau:
What was I saying about AP style book?
Kyle Khachadurian:
I think you were agreeing with them because they were like, don’t use terms like wheelchair bound or confined to a wheelchair.
Emily Ladau:
Oh yeah. Don’t do that. Those are bad terms and I hate them.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes, agree.
Emily Ladau:
Anyway, but this is not about me. This is about the scenario on Reddit. I also think something that would be useful for us to talk about is how to actually approach engaging that in that conversation respectfully. I do imagine that there could be somebody listening to this podcast who might be curious about disability and may even be engaging in a new relationship, or a friendship with someone who’s disabled and may not know how to approach that conversation.
Kyle Khachadurian:
This is reminding me of the time I was taking German in college and there was this big Chinese kid…
Emily Ladau:
Oh, I’ve heard this story, but go on.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And it was a weird kid. Not a weird, weird kid, but a cool weird kid. A little weird kid. He would bring weird stuff to class that was vaguely inappropriate, but kind of always made sense when he got there, that kind of guy. We were kind of friends and one day he just asked me what was wrong with my legs. It was the best thing in the world. The best part about that was you could tell that he was just dying to ask me that for weeks. He finally got the courage. And I told him, he was like, “Oh cool.”
Emily Ladau:
I’m over here being like, “What does German have to do with any of this?” And then I realized…
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s just the class I was in.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah, but it was the way you started the story.
Anyway, so obviously I would prefer that someone’s not like, “What’s wrong with your legs?” Although, I guess you’re just going to do it.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I mean, I think he just needed to ask. I don’t think he was really taking care of how to ask. I think there was something in him that was like, “You got to ask this or else you’re going to explode.”
Emily Ladau:
Do you think he was losing sleep?
Kyle Khachadurian:
No. I think he had his life occupied other ways, but I think if he didn’t, he would’ve.
Emily Ladau:
For me, if I was in a dating situation, I would probably just want someone to be like, “Hey, so do you mind if I ask you a little bit more about why you’re in a wheelchair?”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Simple as that. I will answer probably anything they want to know if they ask me respectfully.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Me too.
Emily Ladau:
I would also, if someone wants to be like, “Oh, can you have sex,” or “Can you have children?” Or wants to ask me more personal questions. In a dating scenario, I would be okay with that, but you can’t just come out with it as the first thing you ask me.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, that’s one of those things. Contextually, it’s appropriate because you want to know those things about someone you date, but that’s really all about how you do it.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. That better not be the first thing you say…
Kyle Khachadurian:
No. No. Yeah. Even if you do it the right way. If it’s the first thing, you already shot yourself in the foot there.
Emily Ladau:
Then, you might need a wheelchair too.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Aye.
Emily Ladau:
That would be funny.
They can hear that, right?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, they can hear that.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, okay.Anyway. Okay, tell me what you think about this.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Okay.
Emily Ladau:
Do you think it’s a trust issue at some point?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. It could be.
Emily Ladau:
Okay. I should clarify what I mean by that. You’ve been burnt before by giving someone personal information about you. Maybe she’s afraid of scaring him away. Maybe she’s afraid it’s going to be too much for him.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Okay, I hear that and I agree with you, but what can you say that the wheelchair doesn’t already say?
Emily Ladau:
Well, you can say… Okay, so I guess I’m going back to it’s connected to a trauma or it’s connected to a genetic disability.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, yeah. Okay. That’s true.
Emily Ladau:
Or it’s progressive. Then, suddenly you’re divulging all this information about how your disability is progressive and 10 years from now it’s going to be different. Or you had this horrible trauma and that’s why you’re using a wheelchair now and so you’re also dealing with the psychological ramifications of that. Or it’s genetic and you could pass it on to your children. Then, is she afraid of losing that person? Also, why would you want to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with you? [inaudible 00:20:39].
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Who knows?
Emily Ladau:
That is something that I about a lot. Obviously, when you first start dating someone, you’re not going to just dump all your crap on them.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No. You’re in total job interview mode, but a romantic one. You know what I mean? You’re putting your best self out there.
Emily Ladau:
This sounds like an HR violation, nevertheless.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Fellas, is it the same to date as it is to go on a job interview?
Emily Ladau:
I think it’s kind of the same thing.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, I’m being funny, but you behave yourself in the best… You put out the best version of you.
Emily Ladau:
Yep. That’s how I ended up dating someone who I shouldn’t have dated.
Anyway.
I was watching this comedy video the other day about dating in your twenties versus dating in your thirties and dating in your twenties is just like, “Oh, I saw a Tinder profile and he’s taking a picture with a dog and he’s so cute.” And in your thirties it’s like, “I’ve had his LinkedIn profile. He has a steady job.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
There you go.
Emily Ladau:
That’s where I’m at right now. Send me your LinkedIn profile boys.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes.
Emily Ladau:
I actually tweeted something about it being National Boyfriend Day.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Was it?
Emily Ladau:
Yeah, earlier this month. I was like, it was really rude of Twitter to inform me of that, so I’m going to inform Twitter that I am single.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s a funny tweet.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Again, I think I’m funny on Twitter, so I said something about you can slide into my DMs. My mom didn’t know what slide into my DMs meant, so she thought that was too risque and told me to take it down. I was like, “Mom, that’s a thing that people say.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
It doesn’t mean anything. Sorry mom. Then, I actually did get a message from someone.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Hilarious.
Emily Ladau:
But he said, “Hey [inaudible 00:22:42].” And I was like, “Absolutely not.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
It doesn’t even matter what you say after that.
Emily Ladau:
Block.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No.
Emily Ladau:
Don’t talk to me ever again.That was a failed experiment. We’re talking entirely too much about me right now. Back to the Reddit thread.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I just think it’s cool, kind of.
Emily Ladau:
What’s cool?
Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s cool because it’s interesting. I cannot imagine not asking your partner.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, sure. I would never have thought of that scenario.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Also, because it just reminds me of that Andy Dwyer meme where it’s like, “I don’t know what this is and at this point I’m too afraid to ask.”
Emily Ladau:
Oh, yes. Yep. So you’re just going with it at this point?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, okay. It’s like when someone makes a cultural reference or asks you if you see the TV show…
Kyle Khachadurian:
That you totally haven’t.
Emily Ladau:
Or if you like this band.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That you don’t.
Emily Ladau:
And you’re like, “Yeah!”
Kyle Khachadurian:
“Yeah!”
Emily Ladau:
I stopped doing that because I’ve gotten myself into some trouble.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I only do that if it’s something I have some knowledge of. I don’t do that if it’s something I don’t know about or straight up dislike.
Emily Ladau:
When I was younger, I would be like, “Oh, totally. I totally heard of that. Love them. That is an excellent band.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Now, that’s a risk. “Oh yeah? What’s your favorite album?”
Emily Ladau:
I did that once. Oh my gosh, this was very embarrassing. I said that I listened to someone’s podcast and…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Emily.
Emily Ladau:
… They were like, “Oh, what episode was your favorite?” And I was like, “Oh my God.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
The one with the talking.
Emily Ladau:
I was just trying to be nice. It’s the worst thing. Never do that. Never do that.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. It’s bad.
Emily Ladau:
Oh my gosh. I think I’m airing more of my dirty laundry because I’m right in front of you, so I literally just feel like I’m talking to you.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Well…
Emily Ladau:
And I’m forgetting that I’m talking to the entire planet right now.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I’m just curious because… I’m just a curious person. There is no part of me, especially God… I feel curious when I look at strangers. I don’t stare at them and flag them down and be like, “Hey, why look like that?” I don’t do that. It’s rude. If I’m dating someone, yeah it’s like I want to know.
Emily Ladau:
Even if I’m friends with someone I actually do want to know.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, I want to know.
Emily Ladau:
But I don’t want to know because I’m being rude. I want to know because I like you as a person. I would like to know about this part of you as a person, but maybe you don’t think that this part of you was important as a person. I don’t know.
Maybe you think it’s inconsequential.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s big Garrett from Superstore vibes.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, where he very casual about the wheelchair?
Kyle Khachadurian:
But he also never tells anyone why.
Emily Ladau:
Oh my gosh. That’s right.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And the show never did it.
Emily Ladau:
You’re right.
Kyle Khachadurian:
In the show I love that. In the show I’m like, look, you can have disability in media and not have it be a centerpiece or a situation. In real life when it’s your partner it’s like, yeah, but don’t you want to know?
Emily Ladau:
Back to Garrett from Superstore for a second. I think what devastates me the most about that is that he’s not a wheelchair user, so it’s not quite perfect except that it’s really great representation.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, I was going to say it’s like annoying because it’s so good, right?
Emily Ladau:
Yeah, it’s fantastic.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Every wheelchair joke on point.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I bet they let them take… I bet they let him take that home.
Emily Ladau:
His wheelchair?
Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t know, maybe there was a wheelchair user on the writing staff or something because it was just too good.
Emily Ladau:
I would hope they would donate it.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, I don’t mean keep it. I mean between shoots.
Emily Ladau:
To practice?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
I thought you meant as a souvenir.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, no, no. People need that. It’s not a souvenir. That is medical equipment.
Emily Ladau:
Okay. Yeah. Do we have conclusions here?
Kyle Khachadurian:
I mean, I don’t know.
Emily Ladau:
This is not even final takeaways yet. I’m just genuinely… I don’t think I have come to a conclusion about this.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I’m a little conflicted because ultimately it’s your business whether or not you tell someone anything about your life. Also, if it’s someone you’re dating, it’s like they should know. I mean, yes, it’s your decision. Yes, it’s ultimately up to you. I just feel like if you’re willing to spend the night with someone, then just tell them a little bit. You should be able to tell them a little bit about yourself.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Okay. If you’re just hooking up with a person, if it’s casual, whatever.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, that’s fine. It’s no one’s business.
Emily Ladau:
If it’s a serious relationship, I feel like have these conversations, especially because I want to know early on if the person that I’m meeting is the type of person who I can have that kind of conversation with. An open, honest conversation about something more personal. If you can’t have that kind of conversation with me, then I would rather know sooner rather than later, so that I’m not wasting my time.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, in a relationship, how did you end up in that wheelchair? Or why are you in that wheelchair? Or tell me about your disability. It’s a big conversation, but it’s small in the grand scheme of conversations you have in relationships with people.
Emily Ladau:
You know what else? I also would use that as a litmus test.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Absolutely. 100%.
Emily Ladau:
First litmus test is obviously, did they even want to go out on a date with you? You pass that test. But the thing is, I went out on plenty of dates with people where I think they intellectually understood that I am a wheelchair user. Then, when we actually hung out in person, they were like, “Whoa, this is really…”
Kyle Khachadurian:
There’s a whole wheelchair right here.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I thought you were going to leave it at home.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah, no, but I really do think it throws people.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I’m sure. I mean, I obviously can’t speak from your experience, but I get that. There’s definitely a difference between hearing someone say something and going, “Yeah, okay, I get it.” And then seeing that thing, even if you end up being okay with it, there’s a total shift there.
Emily Ladau:
Absolutely. It’s also kind of similar to the fact that I’ve been communicating with a lot of people on Zoom and as of late have been meeting more people in person and it’s like, “Oh, there’s the wheelchair I didn’t see in Zoom.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
My body discloses for me when I am in the room, but it only discloses so much. You don’t know the rest of my story if you’re just seeing me for the first time. If it’s somebody that I’m dating, I’m going to want to have a conversation about it at some point. Then I also want to see back to the litmus testing, how you respond to that conversation. Are you weird about it? Do you ask weird questions? It’s okay if you’re weird about it, but I’m talking about will you lean into the awkwardness if there’s an awkward moment? Can we work through that awkwardness or are you just going to make it weird the whole time and continue to be uncomfortable with it? Do you know what I mean?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. No, I think that’s good relationship advice in general though.
Emily Ladau:
Lean into the awkwardness.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, because disability is weird.
Emily Ladau:
Human bodies are weird.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
I’m not trying to erase the disability thing.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, no. Bodies are weird.
Emily Ladau:
When you are agreeing to share your life with a person and share your space with a person.
Kyle Khachadurian:
You don’t know anyone until you live with them. You don’t know anybody.
Emily Ladau:
What you see in a restaurant or the movie theater or a museum, that’s not real life. Not at all.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Nope.
Emily Ladau:
Suddenly when you’re cohabitating with a person…
Kyle Khachadurian:
They’re like, “Wow, you have a lot of hair and none of it’s on your head.”
Emily Ladau:
That feels real. Not for me, but for someone I used to date.
Anyway, the point is that I want to be with a person who wants to know all of me.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s the other thing too. See, it wouldn’t be a red flag, but it would confuse me a little bit if I were in a wheelchair, or even if I’m not. You can see how I walk. If you never asked me, ever. Are you afraid to or are you just oblivious? It’s a real question because do you not want to know? If you don’t want to know, that’s fine. But why?
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Yeah. Pink flag maybe. It’s not a red flag.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Pink, there you go.
Emily Ladau:
You can also bring it up. You can be the one to do it.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, but I’m not going to lose that game of chicken, if you haven’t brought it up already after three months or however long.
Emily Ladau:
Have you noticed that I kind of walk funny? Want to talk about it?
Kyle Khachadurian:
But then if she says no, I’m like, “Oh no, I’m the one who told you?” After all this time, I’m the one who…
Emily Ladau:
I don’t know if you know this, Kyle, but it is noticeable that you walk differently.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, I know. I know this.
Emily Ladau:
I’m just kidding.
Kyle Khachadurian:
What? Man, no one notices that more than me when I walk past the paint of the glass.
Emily Ladau:
I know. You always say this.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I’m like ew, I am so ugly.
Emily Ladau:
I know I need to words, but I’m just shaking my head at you.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I understand. It’s surprising is all. I don’t see it.
Emily Ladau:
Right. Well, I mean, there’s no not seeing my wheelchair.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s true.
Emily Ladau:
Sometimes, I forget how much of it is behind me.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I can see that.
Emily Ladau:
Does that make sense?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, I can see that.
Emily Ladau:
I’m very aware that I need to be aware that I take up more space. When I’m going through a tight hallway or something, or navigating a tight turn, I know that I’m bringing more with me than just myself and I need to pay attention to that space. Sometimes, I’ll just be like, “Whoa, there is so much of me.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Do you ever forget how big you are?
Emily Ladau:
Like me, the person?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, that’s the thing, right? Because obviously I know you know that you’re separate from your wheelchair, but when you’re in it effectively it’s part of your body, right?
Emily Ladau:
Okay. So funny you bring this up because when I am trying to get through somewhere, or I know I’m in the way, I squeeze my body together and suck it in.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Even though…
Emily Ladau:
I’m not sure it’s not going anywhere.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s not going to do a damn thing.
Emily Ladau:
It’s 400 pounds of solid tank behind me. Me going like this. This being like I’m scrunching my body, doesn’t do a thing. Absolutely not.
Kyle Khachadurian:
But it feels like it does for a second, right?
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. I feel like I’m in the way. I feel like I’m taking up too much space. I’m so aware of taking up extra space that I try to close in on myself, but I can’t do that.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
I don’t know. That’s a whole other topic about how disabled people are allowed to take up space.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Physically and emotionally.
Emily Ladau:
Yes. In terms of actually existing in this thing. I do, I call it the tank on my butt. There’s no getting around it, so I would just like for you to talk to me about it. Isn’t it like an insurance commercial or something? Probably a Geico commercial and there’s a guy dressed in a hot dog costume and he’s like, “Ask me about my weiner.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh my God. Yes.
Emily Ladau:
So it’s like ask me about my wheelchair. I mean, please don’t actually really ask me about my wheelchair unless you happen to be in the right context. Don’t be nosy. But if we’re dating…
Kyle Khachadurian:
But that’s not being nosy, right? That’s just trying to learn about your partner. Not that there isn’t nosy ways to do that, but…
Emily Ladau:
Can I scroll through your text messages?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Right. Exactly.
Emily Ladau:
Can I have your medical records? Can I get a doctor’s note?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Just for no reason at all. What’s your social security number?
Emily Ladau:
Mother’s maiden name, anybody? That there’s a red flag if somebody wants your social security number.
Kyle Khachadurian:
And you could quote us on that.
Emily Ladau:
Oh man. We should do a whole episode on red flags. Just dating red flags.
Kyle Khachadurian:
All of them.
Emily Ladau:
This is becoming Dating in the Accessible Stall with Emily and Kyle.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, it’s not totally off topic, the LP was about dating.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah, no, that’s true. That’s true. Also, it’s more on my brain right now.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Well, I can’t imagine not telling somebody why you’re in a wheelchair or that… Or not even that, you’re disabled. Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, I remember what I wanted to talk about 37 minutes into the episode.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Here we go.
Emily Ladau:
Every time.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Here we go. This is the big key point.
Emily Ladau:
What if you have a non-apparent disability?
Kyle Khachadurian:
I was literally just going to say that. I was going to guess that that was your thing.
Emily Ladau:
Because I think I meant to say this way earlier.
Kyle Khachadurian:
In that case, then it’s not a big deal if they notice or don’t notice because by… If they don’t notice, because by the definition it’s not apparent.
Emily Ladau:
Then, the onus actually is on you at some point to be like, “Hey.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, that’s unfair, but what can you do about that?
Emily Ladau:
I think maybe an example of that is I have Crohn’s disease. I don’t have Crohn’s disease. I’m saying like…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, I was like you do?
Emily Ladau:
… The hypothetical. No, no, no, no. A hypothetical human being who has Crohn’s.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Right?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
That’s not something you just know about a person, but it is something that will eventually impact plans that you’re making. Where you eat. Things like that. At what point do you disclose that information to someone?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Hey, anyone with Crohn’s hit us… Or any non-apparent disability, hit us up. Email us.
Emily Ladau:
Or you have type one diabetes, so you have an insulin pump or you have an ostomy bag. All of these things are not immediately apparent.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It is a little unfair, but the onus is on you. Unfortunately. I guess it has to be right. Otherwise, how would the other person even know? I don’t think that’s fair at all, but I also don’t really have a good answer for that.
Emily Ladau:
Or you use a catheter to go to the bathroom.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Something like that though… And the same with ostomy bags. Those two things are a little different because those two things aren’t the other person’s business until you’re about to go to town. I think. I could be wrong about that, but I don’t know.
Emily Ladau:
You know what? Nothing is really anyone’s business about [inaudible 00:39:33].
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, I just mean if you’re going to town, they’re going to notice those things.
Emily Ladau:
Sure, of course. Maybe you have scars on your body because you had surgery, right?
Kyle Khachadurian:
As someone with scars on his body because of surgery that actually has… It’s funny you say that because I never really thought about it, but it doesn’t bother me. In my past, whenever I’ve been with someone new, I would always be like, “Hey, just hang on. I have scars.” I’ve done that.
Emily Ladau:
I think I have as well.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
None of my mine are visible when I have clothes on.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Mine neither. Yeah. It doesn’t bother me. I always did that as a way to comfort the other person, which is funny now that I say that out loud.
Emily Ladau:
Or they give them a heads up so that they’re not like, “Oh, that’s weird.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, exactly.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Also, then your scars also have stories behind them. For me, a lot… Okay, this is where I can relate.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Because now I’m like, “We’re about to do it, so you’re just going to have to ask me about my stories when we’re done, okay then?”
Emily Ladau:
I can’t talk to you about my traumas right now. My medical trauma. Absolutely not. The scar on this leg is from this surgery and this leg is from this surgery, and back here is from this surgery. And on my hip… I’m not going to have that conversation. Yeah, I really wish that I had thought to bring this up not more than a half an hour into the episode, because I think it’s very important.
Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s the Accessible Stall way.
Emily Ladau:
There’s a huge difference between how incredibly apparent a wheelchair is. I mean, non-apparent disability or what if it is a disability that only comes up in certain moments? It affects things in certain moments?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Like Epilepsy or something like that.
Emily Ladau:
Right, exactly. Then at some point, if your partner wants to go see a wild rock show that’s going to have flashing lights, you got to be like…
Kyle Khachadurian:
“Hey…”
Emily Ladau:
… “Listen, this is dangerous for me.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Also, if they’re already someone you call your partner, and that’s a deal breaker for them, they’re kind of an [inaudible 00:42:01]. That’s not a big deal. I mean, it’s a big deal if they endanger your life. If you’re like, “Hey, flashing lights will actually maybe kill me.” And they’re like, “Oh, well that’s cool and everything. I don’t want to date you anymore.” Don’t do that.
Emily Ladau:
That’s the litmus test though.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
But that’s a lot more something I can imagine being sprung on people than the wheelchair. The wheelchair’s going to be abundantly obvious.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Right.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah, I actually would genuinely like to hear from people who have non-apparent disabilities. Again, another point. 42 minutes into the episode. Going to make another point. There are actually… There’s a disability that I have that I hesitate to disclose, which is my hearing disability. My mom, if she has listened this far into the episode, is going to yell from the other room when she’s listening. You should wear your hearing aids. I don’t want to wear my hearing aids mom. Anyway, so I definitely have hearing loss, but in the same way that if someone’s like, “Oh, have you ever listened to this band?” And I’ll be like, “Yep, definitely have listened to this band.” Wait, did we talk about that on the podcast? Or did we talk about that before we started recording?
Kyle Khachadurian:
What?
Emily Ladau:
The thing where you pretend that you know a band.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, I don’t remember.
Emily Ladau:
Oh my God.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, I think it was on the podcast.
Emily Ladau:
Okay. If someone’s talking to me, I could just be like, “I’m hard of hearing.” I couldn’t tell them, like repeat yourself please. Instead I’m just like, “Yep.”
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, but what if it’s someone you don’t want to talk to? Then, if you tell them that they’re just going to talk louder and now you have to actually hear them. It’s like, “No.”
Emily Ladau:
It’s been a lot harder for me with masks on. To be honest.
Kyle Khachadurian:
You know what? I don’t have hearing loss. It’s been harder for me, so I can’t imagine what it’s like when you have hearing loss.
Emily Ladau:
I have been yessing people to death, honestly. I know that’s not a good thing, but… Well, the other thing too is the guy that I dated previously would find it annoying if I asked him to repeat himself, even though he knew that I had hearing loss.
Kyle Khachadurian:
What?
Emily Ladau:
Yeah.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Really?
Emily Ladau:
Yep.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Dick.
Emily Ladau:
Yep. Anyway, this is not the beat up on Emily’s ex-boyfriend show, but the point being that yeah, I have disabilities that are not apparent and I’m not very good at disclosing them. I honestly think it would make my life so much easier if at the beginning of a relationship, a friendship or just like a conversation.
Kyle Khachadurian:
“Hi, I’m Emily Ladau, I’m disabled and I have hearing loss. Good to meet you.”
Emily Ladau:
Honestly, I do feel like I should start saying that to people.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I was being funny, but actually that would clear a lot of stuff up, wouldn’t it?
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Then, maybe people would actually project when they’re communicating with me, especially from behind a mask, it’s really challenging for me. I was just at a conference and thankfully almost everyone was masked up, but I almost wish I could have been like, “Hey, I have hearing loss. Can you just be a little louder? This is a loud room.” Then on top of that, people will be playing music while you’re trying to have a conversation at a conference.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Stop that.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I know.
Emily Ladau:
Turn the music off. Anyway, way off topic here. Getting back on track, I think we can finally do our final takeaways. Now, that I’ve made all the major points at the end of the episode.
Kyle Khachadurian:
My final takeaway is we should make these points at the beginning of the episode.
Emily Ladau:
That was a personal attack.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I do it too. I do it too.
Emily Ladau:
What’s your actual final takeaway?
Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t know. Ultimately, it’s your business what you disclose to whom and when. Also, if you’re in a relationship with someone you should probably let them know why you’re in a wheelchair. Especially, if it’s relevant to the situation you’re in with them in some way. I guess my ultimate final takeaway is do whatever feels comfortable for you, but then don’t get mad at your partner if they don’t understand something about something they don’t know about you.
Emily Ladau:
That makes sense. I think my final takeaway is similar to yours. Gauge the situation. If you are not comfortable talking about something, you are not responsible for another person’s feelings. In the sense that you don’t need to make someone feel better about you using a wheelchair. At some point, I would hope that the lines of communication would be open between you and the person that you’re dating and that you would feel comfortable enough with that person to start to have a conversation. Even if you don’t reveal everything all at once or ever. Maybe there are some things that you only want to talk about in therapy.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
And that’s okay. My hope for everyone is that if they’re going to enter a relationship, that it becomes one where they feel like the lines of communication are open.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I agree.
Emily Ladau:
Yeah. On that note…
Kyle Khachadurian:
This has been another episode of The Accessible Stall.
Emily Ladau:
It’s been a really cool episode of The Accessible Stall because we were together.
Kyle Khachadurian:
In the same room. Hooray.
Emily Ladau:
And we’re not kidding. We’ll take a picture to show you.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
It would’ve been cool if we did video though.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It really would’ve.
Emily Ladau:
Should we take a picture while we’re still recording?
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes.
Emily Ladau:
Okay, great. Everyone’s going to hear us narrate be taking a picture. Two disabled people trying [inaudible 00:48:16].
Kyle Khachadurian:
Whoa.
Emily Ladau:
Kyle almost dropped his phone.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I almost like chucked it at you.
All right.
Emily Ladau:
Anyway…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Glad you all got to hear that.
Emily Ladau:
Got attacked by a phone.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh my God.
Emily Ladau:
Very dramatic here. Okay, in the final minutes of the episode, I just want to say, Seattle is the worst city I’ve ever been to.
Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s not that bad. Anyway, go to patreon.com/theaccessiblestall to make it so that I can live in a better place. Just $1 a month. [inaudible 00:48:52] accessible stall remain…
Emily Ladau:
Accessible.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Hooray.
Emily Ladau:
Although, he’s joking. We do not take a salary from Patreon.
Kyle Khachadurian:
No, we really don’t.
Emily Ladau:
We put it all right back into the podcast.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Every penny.
Emily Ladau:
Every single penny.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Every dime.
Emily Ladau:
At this point, we’re at 49 minutes and six seconds. Seven seconds. I just want to keep going to 50. I just want to…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, we can just tell them how good they look today.
Emily Ladau:
Oh, might we say, you look so good today.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Fabulous.
Emily Ladau:
The sweatpants, Kyle.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I am wearing sweatpants.
Emily Ladau:
I’m in fancy conference pants.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Really, between the two of us, you got it going on.
Emily Ladau:
You look work from home. I look…
Kyle Khachadurian:
Work.
Emily Ladau:
… Working person. I look like I went to work today.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.
Emily Ladau:
Which I did.
Kyle Khachadurian:
I did too, but I do work from home and Emily doesn’t, or at least isn’t right now.
Emily Ladau:
Isn’t right now. Well, is the podcast work because I’m working from your home? But I don’t feel like the podcast is work.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Nah.
Emily Ladau:
Anyway. You do look good today.
Kyle Khachadurian:
If we had three times as much in our Patreon as we do, we’d start to feel like work. Hey, hey.
Emily Ladau:
Hey.
Kyle Khachadurian:
Good night everybody.
Emily Ladau:
Bye.