Kyle Khachadurian:
This episode is sponsored by ADA Illustrated, a visualization of the ADA building code available on Kindle and paperback via Amazon.

Emily Ladau:
Inaccessible spaces with ADA violations are all too common. Despite the importance of accessibility, many people still struggle to interpret and apply ADA standards correctly. Enter ADA Illustrated your ultimate guide to decoding the ADA Building Code.

Kyle Khachadurian:
With over 300 easy to understand 3D illustrations, ADA Illustrated helps empower everyday people to know how the design standards should be done. No more deciphering dense text or navigating confusing diagrams. ADA Illustrated makes understanding accessibility design a breeze.

Emily Ladau:
ADA Illustrated is your ticket to empowerment and expertise. Unlock the secrets of ADA compliance with ADA Illustrated because when it comes to accessibility, everyone deserves a clear path.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Remember, you can grab your copy on Kindle or in paperback form via Amazon. You can also visit booksbywyatt.com for more information. That’s booksbywyatt, W-Y-A-T-T.com. Get your copy today.

Emily Ladau:
Look, this episode is sponsored by ADA Illustrated, but also it’s just a really cool resource.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, it’s everything that… We’ve tried to read the ADA, we’ve had lawyers on to talk about the ADA. It’s that dense. This really makes a giant chunk of it very accessible to laypeople like us and to everyone else.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah, I’m someone who has a lot of trouble with conceptualizing things, and so seeing the visualization of accessibility requirements in 3D is so helpful because when I look at things in front of me all flat, I’m like, “Forget it.” Hi, I’m Emily Ladau.

Kyle Khachadurian:
And I’m Kyle Khachadurian.

Emily Ladau:
And you probably figured out by now that you’re listening to another episode of The Accessible Stall.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Emily, normally I would ask you what we’re going to talk about, but I think that I will do that today. Today I think we should talk about the C word.

Emily Ladau:
Oh, no.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Not that one.

Emily Ladau:
The C word?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Not that one, the other one.

Emily Ladau:
Okay.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Although it warrants a similar reaction.

Emily Ladau:
The feminist in me was stressed.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Well, the disability advocate in you is about to be just as stressed because we’re talking about Cures today, baby.

Emily Ladau:
Oh boy. The other C word is canceled. This makes me nervous.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Which is what we are about to be. Let’s go

Emily Ladau:
Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. I was told you had a story for me before we get started.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, yeah.

Emily Ladau:
So do we want worry time or do we want to talk about cures?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, this story is not, we can’t extrapolate, but I do think it’s worth telling you because I was saving this for you.

Emily Ladau:
And our beautiful listeners?

Kyle Khachadurian:
And our beautiful listeners. I was getting groceries delivered and I forgot because I set this years ago that in the delivery instructions, I said, “Hey, I’m disabled. Can you please try your best to come up to my door?” Even though they’re supposed to do anyway, just they don’t though. So I said, “Hey, it would be really helpful if you came up to my door and knocked on it instead of me having to lug up the heavy grocery bags to my apartment.” And I forgot all about that. And I’ve ordered a lot of groceries since then, and this time was no exception except that I actually had to go downstairs and let him in because for whatever reason he couldn’t get in. So I let him in and he was more than happy to come up with me. But when we got into the elevator, he looks right at me. He goes, “So how’s your life?” It’s a really strange question.
And at first I was like, “Why the hell are you asking me?” I wasn’t offended, but it’s just a weird… Because he spoke with an Eastern European accent, and so my immediate thought was like, “Oh, he’s just asking me how I am. And he doesn’t speak English as a first language,” so I wasn’t offended or anything. But then I noticed that he was wearing very strange glasses and I said, “Excuse me?” And then he took off the glasses and he was like, “Oh, I’m disabled too.” And I realized that he was an albino man with some kind of eye condition and he was wearing glasses as a way to help him see. He goes, “Yeah, I have very terrible eyesight.” And I was like, “Brother, guess what?”
The other person who lives in this apartment also has very terrible eyesight. And also I live on the third floor. So we were having this conversation really quickly. But I just thought that you’d find it very funny that I was asked, “How was your life?” And I actually, you’re not going to believe this because we’re recording, but I actually had the thought, I wonder what Emily would say and how she would respond to someone unprompted asking her how her life was and then only to immediately find out that that person was also disabled. It was a roller coaster of emotion.

Emily Ladau:
Wow, I have a lot of-

Kyle Khachadurian:
A minute and a half.

Emily Ladau:
Big feelings about this, I mean. Okay, so this is not the story I thought you were going to tell me. I thought you were going to tell me a story that you already told me and I thought that you had forgotten that you told me about when a guy came up to bring you delivery because you said you were disabled. And then he saw you walking, and then he was like, “A lawyer said you were disabled.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. It doesn’t work like that. I wish it did. Honestly, I wish I were lying to you.

Emily Ladau:
But no, I love this actually. And be honest, I think that that’s kind of the cool thing about disability sometimes. I mean, to be instant solidarity.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, it was really cool. It was actually really cool.

Emily Ladau:
Okay. We love this story. We also love grocery delivery. Can I tell you, we’ll get to Cures in a second, but can I just tell you the newest accessibility thing that I have discovered?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes, please.

Emily Ladau:
So this requires driving, so I guess not accessible to all, but did you know that you can drive to Target and park in a drive-up spot and somebody will come out with your order and put it in your trunk for you? I don’t even have to get out of my car.

Kyle Khachadurian:
And you still get to go to Target?

Emily Ladau:
Great. Exactly. Which honestly is better for my wallet because if I went in Target, I would buy everything.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Everyone knows that Target has a pheromone in it that attracts white women. And if… Sorry, you all know it’s true.

Emily Ladau:
I don’t know. I don’t think it’s just white women, I think that there’s some universal black hole that you get sucked into. But anyway, the point is how accessible is that? I don’t even have to get out of my car. I don’t have to carry the bags, nothing. I love that for me.

Kyle Khachadurian:
So really it’s like you drove to Target and you just drove home and all of a sudden it’s like you just park somewhere and now you have a cart full of groceries.

Emily Ladau:
Anyway, people listening to this are probably like, “Where have you been?”

Kyle Khachadurian:
I know, they’re probably like, “We’ve had this since March of 2020.” It’s new, okay. We didn’t know.

Emily Ladau:
I don’t know if it’s new. I don’t know-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Actually I don’t know if it’s new either.

Emily Ladau:
I just know that I love it and it has been a godsend. I mean, obviously I have to figure out carrying the groceries on the other side, but it is really nice. Also, continuing the theme of my love of Trader Joe’s. The last time I went to Trader Joe’s, everybody offered to help me, and then one guy was finally just like, “Do you want me to follow you around with a basket?”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Did you take him up on that?

Emily Ladau:
Yes.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Good for you. I would’ve been way too proud for that. Honestly, that’s so good that you did that.

Emily Ladau:
Look, usually I am, but it’s his job. He works there and he was being helpful, he wasn’t being patronizing. I can’t reach anything in that store.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s true.

Emily Ladau:
So cures? Well, it took about 20 minutes to get here.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Let’s talk about cures. Okay. Let’s just start by saying, we know that this is a contentious topic, and it’s not just because we’re part of a larger community that is very vocal. It’s also because we’re self-contentious about this topic, and I can only speak for myself, but I would be willing to bet that you have also went back and forth about your opinions about cures for yourself and also cures perhaps for other people, and also even cures for your specific condition period. And maybe perhaps even others. The point is there’s layers here and we’re only going to be talking about ourselves and nothing else.

Emily Ladau:
I’m really glad you said that because I already can see people getting heated. And you know what? I want to be very clear, I’m not telling you how to feel.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I think this would be best if we talk about our own personal journeys with it. I think that way it’s little bit more clear that it’s us.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah, I agree. And I also think that we should probably offer the context that the reason this came about is because we struggle so much with this topic, and both of our viewpoints have evolved, I would say over time. And I know that it’s something that we’re both grappling with a lot all the time. Because before we talk about our own journeys, I just think that we need to name honestly that there is a really pervasive belief within so much of the disability community that daring to say the word cure, means you’re a bad advocate.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. That even merely suggesting it is verboten for a myriad of reasons. Some I would say are more valid than others, but it is something that is common in our world no matter what the disability or condition is, and that is just fact.

Emily Ladau:
And I also think we should probably point out that neither of us have conditions that are curable.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That really does help my personal view though, It does, because I actually have no idea. I know it would be different if there were, because then I would have to put my money where my mouth was and I don’t know.

Emily Ladau:
Tell me where your money and your mouth would be?

Kyle Khachadurian:
Man, I am so pro cure now. I used to be the most anti-cure, I… I, which is kind of ironic because as you know more than anyone, even more than me, disability was and sometimes still is not really part of how I identify. And yet, even when I was very in my life, I don’t like that word to describe me, even in that phase of my life that I can argue I’m still in, but that’s for another time. I never liked the idea of cure ever, which is really weird because someone like that you would think, I would think would like to cure. And it was because at that time it was everything in my life was because of it, because of my CP in some way or another, better or worse. And I felt like I would be betraying part of myself. And then I turned 30.

Emily Ladau:
I mean, that’s when supposedly everybody says the world changes, so.

Kyle Khachadurian:
No, I mean, I am not going to lie, I was definitely going toward cure way before then. But I think at that time I was able to be really honest with myself. Because I used to say all kinds of stuff and I was about to say stupid stuff, but it’s not stupid if you feel this way. I used to say all kinds of things that this version of me would see as just the excuses. I used to say, “Well, I wouldn’t cure CP, but I would cure the pain. I wouldn’t cure CP, but I would make myself walk straight. I wouldn’t cure CP, but I would add a couple inches to my height. I wouldn’t cure CP, but I would make it so that I could hold a cup with liquid in it without trembling like I had Parkinson’s disease.” I used to say all kinds of stuff like that.
And then I realized, hold on now, if I take away all the stuff that CP does that negatively impacts my life, what’s left, it doesn’t positively impact my life. The ways that it has positively impacted my life are ways that have nothing to do with the fact that I have it, it’s just that because I have it, I was able to create this life for myself. That would not change if it disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn’t.

Emily Ladau:
It wouldn’t change now but it is what led you down every path that you’re on.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, it would’ve, back then there would be no Accessible Stall if I could cure my CP back when I had that thought at 22.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah.

Kyle Khachadurian:
But that’s what I’m saying. It’s because I have CP, but CP didn’t do that. The CP self didn’t do that.

Emily Ladau:
CP doesn’t have me.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s so annoying. If you’re one of those people that believes that God bless you, okay, I am not making fun of you-

Emily Ladau:
I’m joking.

Kyle Khachadurian:
But I know, but it’s just not for me. It’s like, okay, if that’s you, that’s cool, bro. It is just not for me.

Emily Ladau:
Do you remember we used to be so careful on this show and now we’re just like, “I’m going to tell you how I feel.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yes. Well, there are things that I do that I do because I have CP that are good, but I don’t do it for the right reasons. And I’ve touched on this before. I am cheap, I save money going like it’s going to be food one day. And the reason for that is because I don’t know if I’m be able to work in 30 years. I hope I will. I don’t really see any reason to think that I will fully lose my ability to work, but I don’t even want to, what if I do? What if I do and then what? Would I be that way if I didn’t have CP? Probably my dad would still be my dad and he’s worse than me. But his reason and my reason, I don’t know his reason, but I know it’s different. You know what I mean? I’m doing it because I feel like I have to.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah, I think for me, I’m constantly worried about what happens if something affects my capacity to work, and that’s a whole other conversation around productivity. But yeah, that definitely shapes a lot of how I function. But in terms of years, to go back to it, you said something that I guess they hadn’t really considered it from this perspective, but I would often say the same thing. It would be like, “Well, I just don’t want the chronic pain,” or, “No, it might be nice if I didn’t have to contend with stairs all the time and not be able to get into buildings.”
And it’s just like, actually, you know what? It would be really freaking great if all of the pain and all of the inaccessibility was gone. But there’s a dynamic here where some of it is internal and no one else’s fault. My pain is no one else’s fault. The barriers that I encounter because of my disability, that is not my fault. And so that’s the part where I get to the point of it’s not me who needs the fixing, it’s society that needs the fixing. And I think it’s a both and not an either or.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Exactly. You stole the words right from me because the fact of the matter is if you could take a magic pill and it worked and had no adverse effects, those barriers would no longer be there to you, even though they’re a hundred percent and were never your fault.

Emily Ladau:
And those barriers would still be there because magic pill would not fix those barriers.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s right.

Emily Ladau:
And I taking a magic pill would not preclude me from falling and breaking my leg years down the line and suddenly being unable to walk again or aging into disability or whatever. So there’s just so many hypotheticals where it’s like, “Yeah, I want the pain gone. And I’m really annoyed constantly by the accessibility barriers that I encounter. But one of those things is a me problem, and I’m not saying’s something wrong with me. I’m just saying no one can change that. The other thing is, get your shit together society. You take a pill.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Right. Why do I have to do it? I have to do it because chronic pain’s annoying and tripping over nothing is annoying. But I used to play this thought experiment with myself. I would say like, “I wish just for 24 hours, man, I just wish I knew what that was just to be…” But then, no, I don’t. No, no, I would not ever do that for only 24 hours. Because that would… I love, genuinely the ignorance that I live in, not knowing what it’s like to be able to do certain things. I would not be able to handle it if I knew. I feel that way. I don’t care about my height. I’m a short guy. I’m five four for anyone doesn’t know, I’m really short. I feel a little bit of that when I stand in the back of your wheelchair and I’m like, “oh, I’m average height.” This is sick. I’m not even tall and I don’t even care. And I feel that just when you and I are messing around, I can’t imagine if I could just get rid of it for a while, I just wouldn’t.

Emily Ladau:
Okay. Perspective for you is-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Sure.

Emily Ladau:
What about someone who was walking one day and then gets hit by a car and becomes paralyzed? They knew that life and now they know a different life.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Everyone I know who has acquired a disability that are like, they totally have a different experience than me, but they all act in a way that I don’t think I could selfishly being born this way. I truly-

Emily Ladau:
Right. Because it’s all you’ve ever known.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
But on the flip side, being non-disabled with all these people ever knew until they became disabled. It’s interesting.

Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s so weird.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah, it’s a really weird flip situation to think about.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I will say though, I don’t know how keen I would be. I’m saying magic pill for a reason because I think honestly, if I had to do anything particularly invasive, you could tell me on a base of this if it really could, if it was a hundred percent proven and it wouldn’t kill me. But if I had to relearn how to walk and stuff like that, if I had to relearn how to do all that at 32, that would be a little-

Emily Ladau:
It wouldn’t even necessarily be relearning so much of learning something entirely different because your body would start to function differently.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, that makes it worse then.

Emily Ladau:
Right. Yeah. And also you’re right about the invasiveness. I mean, I want to make sure that I clarify. I am not here to judge or speak about someone who acquired an injury and what they choose to do. But for me, when I watch people who have been paralyzed, use an exoskeleton so that they can try to stand up for a little while, I’m like, I understand you’re trying to replicate a feeling that you had pre-entry, but all of what you’re doing just looks so uncomfortable and unwieldy and painful. And I’m just like, “Sit down.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
I wonder if that’s because you were born this way too, maybe-

Emily Ladau:
Oh, totally.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
And I’m sure I’m making people mad right now, but please know, it comes from a place of love and curiosity and not judgment because I don’t have that experience.

Kyle Khachadurian:
And what’s weird too, and I don’t actually know if this is true for you and your disability, but for me and mine, I got a pretty mild case of severe brain damage. That’s a line for a video game that I love so much because it actually applies to my life. I have a very mild case of severe brain damage. And it’s not bad. There are people with CP who are much more limited in ways that I know I take for granted that I would not personally, but that I obviously don’t have a problem with or anything like that. But I like this. And if I like this and I do, and I would still cure it, I feel that guilt because I already feel guilty having this much “CP”, when I know I could have had a much worse presentation of it.
And that’s not to judge anyone who has any more or less CP than me. I’m not talking about that. I’m just talking about from where I stand, I’m very aware of my privilege and that there’s a lot that I can do that a lot of people with CP can’t do. And so why is this idiot complaining that he would cure what he’s got when… And I get that, but still, I just…

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. I mean, I think about all of the ways in which my disability does not impact me. I communicate verbally and it does not have a cognitive impact for example. And also, I’m sure I’ve said this in other contexts on the podcast before, but people used to try to say, “Oh, well, your likes don’t work, but your mind works fine.” And that was so validating to me when I was younger, and it wasn’t until I got older that I realized. That is awful. That is awful.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I used to say that.

Emily Ladau:
Were saying Exactly, but you’re essentially saying, “Oh, you are an acceptable human being because you’re only this kind of disabled.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Exactly. Which is a wild take. And yet somehow I feel like that’s a very acceptable thing to say, even in our world sometimes.

Emily Ladau:
Oh, totally. Totally.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I understand. For example, that’s what the doctors told my parents. I love them, but they like that because they had a baby that they were scared of losing. And that was great news to them in that context. I understand it, but in the context of being a disabled person saying, “Well, yeah, I can’t walk, but at least I can think though,” is not the flex you think it is.

Emily Ladau:
And not only that, but every time I hear someone who’s like, “Well, I use a wheelchair or I have a speech impediment, but that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with my brain. I’m not stupid.” And I’m like, “What? Do you hear yourself? I understand what you’re trying to say, but do you realize how offensive you’re being?” I don’t think they do.

Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s like that you’re describing people who would be featured on the sub Reddit Accidental Alley. Except in the other direction where they’re saying something that’s in the, yeah. But anyway, but I think I’m not going to defend that because I agree with you. I think it’s a bad thing to say, but I really do believe that the people who say that don’t understand why.

Emily Ladau:
Oh, absolutely.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Because it’s such a taken advantage or taken for granted thing, not taken advantage. That we society, we don’t realize how much we don’t value those with IDD until we were forced to. And that’s bad.

Emily Ladau:
I could go on and on a soapbox about this, but-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Maybe we should, that could be a tone episode.

Emily Ladau:
And it should be.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
And I think maybe we could invite someone with IDD, but-

Kyle Khachadurian:
We should.

Emily Ladau:
As they say, an office jargon, putting a pin on it in it for now, because another thing that I was thinking about was I often say that I wish I could put myself at a business because I am in the business of being a professional disabled person. I’m disabled 24/7. And this is not so much about a cure as it is a societal fix, but just thinking about how a “cure” would also put me out of business. This is my life, my identity, my job. It’s everything. And I’m not necessarily saying that’s healthy, but I am saying that’s my reality.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, but you could, you’re good at everything you do except for walking.

Emily Ladau:
I don’t know about that.

Kyle Khachadurian:
But you don’t even do that.

Emily Ladau:
Very bad at walking.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, but you don’t do that.

Emily Ladau:
Right. Sometimes I just put my feet on the floor and I’m like, “What if I just tried to stand up?” But I can’t.

Kyle Khachadurian:
My God. Can you imagine one day it worked? What the hell in that? Just blow your freaking mind. Oh, man. That’s funny.

Emily Ladau:
I also, I sometimes walk in my dreams, but this is not an aspirational thing. This is not aspirational. And I know what it’s like to walk because I walked when I was younger, but I think it’s so weird because my legs always feel heavy in my dreams. Like dream. Emily knows that she’s not supposed to be doing that, and we’re doing that anyway.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That is wild.

Emily Ladau:
It’s so weird.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s crazy. I love that.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah, it’s really weird.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t know if I’m disabled in my dreams. I have no idea.

Emily Ladau:
I wish we could hook you up to a machine and find out.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Weird dream podcast time. In my dreams when something good is happening to me, it’s third person and I am watching myself having it done to me. When it’s bad though, that’s first person, baby. I don’t know what that says about me, but that’s some true fact about this guy.

Emily Ladau:
That’s fascinating. Let’s do a dream analysis podcast next time, but in the meantime, hear the hypothetical for you.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Okay.

Emily Ladau:
So what if it was not just a cure, but the entirety of your experiences and identity up to that point were erased?

Kyle Khachadurian:
I’m shaking my head no, and I’ll tell you why. There’s a funny answer and then there’s a real answer. The funny answer is, because then I would have to really commit to my identity as a Kyle, and I would have to drink Monster and wear a backwards hat and punch walls, and I can’t do that. And that is something I’m grateful to CP for. But if you’re going to men in black me and zap my entire memory away if you cure it, that, I don’t think I can do that. It’s not that bad. But I don’t know if there’s many things I would zap my memory for, truly. There might be. There might be, I’m not going to say there’s nothing. There’s probably something, but yeah, no. No way.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah, I mean, but that I think gets to the crux of the issue for me is that to take a magic pill, to get the Mr. clean magic eraser except for your disability, whatever it is.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That’s actually just-

Emily Ladau:
[inaudible 00:29:20].

Kyle Khachadurian:
Scrub the gray matter, black spot on my brain, “Oh, it’s all clean now.”

Emily Ladau:
That’s a Saturday live sketch for sure. But that’s the thing. It’s not just erasing the pain, it’s not just erasing my inability to walk or grappling with accessibility. It’s erasing everything that has shaped who I am up to this point in my life. And that is true, no matter how you feel about disability as an identity.

Kyle Khachadurian:
[Inaudible 00:29:58].

Emily Ladau:
What?

Kyle Khachadurian:
No, go ahead. Sorry, I didn’t want to interrupt you. I’m sorry.

Emily Ladau:
It looked like you had a counterpoint.

Kyle Khachadurian:
It wasn’t a counterpoint. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you. That was just me. I had a light bulb and that light bulb was, I wonder if you’d still be as passionate about disability though, because of your mom. I would wager that you would, but it would be for all the wrong reasons.

Emily Ladau:
Oh my God, you imagine if I was one of those people who was like-

Kyle Khachadurian:
You totally would be one of those people though, because you would still have your ambition and your mom would still be your mom. It’s a recent feature.

Emily Ladau:
Wow, I hate that for me.

Kyle Khachadurian:
No, I mean, maybe you wouldn’t, who knows?

Emily Ladau:
Well, I would absolutely be one of those like, give me a gold star allies. I don’t know. I hope I wouldn’t suck that much, but you never know.

Kyle Khachadurian:
And I hope that I would still be a huge nerd that doesn’t play sports, so that the reason I don’t play sports is because I can’t, not because I actually wanted to at some point in my life. That’s a silly example but like, you know?

Emily Ladau:
I just at this point feel like my disability has given me in many ways, as much as it has taken from me. But I should also note, I don’t really know that it’s taken things from me necessarily because they just aren’t things that I can have.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, you off my point.

Emily Ladau:
Okay. Well, I am still trying to figure out how to articulate what I meant.

Kyle Khachadurian:
That was beautiful just for whatever that’s worth. That was cool.

Emily Ladau:
I think, because to say that my disability took something from me implies that I had something in the first place. I still don’t know what I’m trying to say, but I guess you get it.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I get it. I really… Oh, I remember now. Okay, zoom out, it’s not about you or your disability anymore. If you could take a magic pill that could guarantee that you would not get any disease condition in certain negative medical word here that runs in your family genetically, [inaudible 00:32:06], or even just by bad luck, would you take that one? I would take that one faster than the CP one.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. Yeah. But then that gets into the whole conversation around ethics of selecting for certain genes and things like that. But again-

Kyle Khachadurian:
I know, but I don’t want dementia and I don’t want glaucoma, even though there’s nothing wrong with glaucoma. Some people with glaucoma are really cool.

Emily Ladau:
I was about say you were about to step in it.

Kyle Khachadurian:
No, but really that to me is different. And you know why it’s different? I’ll tell you why it’s different because I don’t currently have those things. That’s why it’s different. That is very easy for me to say, “Oh yeah, I’ll take that to prevent those things.”

Emily Ladau:
I have one other thing though too, which is like, I have enough problems. I am just so disabled already, I don’t want more. And you can call me ableist, but that’s not what I mean.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Dude, okay. I think any reasonable person, especially if they’re also disabled, knows exactly what you’re saying. I don’t want any, that’s the whole crux of this episode. I don’t want any more problems, and I know they’re coming.

Emily Ladau:
Well, yeah. And also I had a very real encounter with this because I had a cervical spinal cord compression, and we were watching it since I was like six months old. I always had an unstable cervical spine. And the doctors would say, “At some point you’re going to need surgery to stabilize this and fix it.” And so in high school, I needed that surgery but the major caveat was, “Well, if you let the spinal cord compression go on, you could become paralyzed and die. If we fix it and it fails, you could become paralyzed and die.” And I was like, “Oh, great options.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Okay.

Emily Ladau:
So I was just like, I don’t want any of this. I don’t want to become paralyzed. But I mean, you have to take a preventative measure in the hopes that you don’t become paralyzed while taking your preventative measure. That was a very real moment where somebody was like, “You might be become more disabled.” And I was like, “No, thank you.” And again, not a judgment on paralysis, but just like when someone’s like, “Here are your options.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
I think it’s very easy to forget that you and I and everybody, are very used to, and for better or worse, like sometimes in air quotes, the bodies and experiences that we have. There is nothing wrong with paralysis. I know plenty of paralyzed people who live great lives. I don’t want it, they probably don’t want what I got. I don’t want what you have. It looks good on you though, it really does, but I don’t want it. I like this.

Emily Ladau:
Is that our version of like, might we say, “You look good today.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
No, you look good today.

Emily Ladau:
But I think that for me at this point, I really do feel like the cures that I want are chronic pain and inaccessibility be gone. But-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Then what would you do for a living?

Emily Ladau:
Right, exactly. But at least I’d still have my identity and my memories, my family, the people that I love.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, man.

Emily Ladau:
And there’s an added component of this to me. And of course they waited until 41 minutes into recording to say this, but there’s also the genetic ethics of if you have a child and you can consciously select not to pass on your disability, do you choose that? And quite frankly, maybe that’s another episode, but it is related to the cure conversation.

Kyle Khachadurian:
My one sentence answer to that before we inevitably tackle that one day is that is a totally personal decision that is entirely and only up to you, and that’s that.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. And you know what? I think I’ll stay with my views on that for another episode-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
Because-

Kyle Khachadurian:
I would love to hear them though, if you’re willing to say them on the show.

Emily Ladau:
I’ll tell you secretly after the episode. No, of course we can talk about it because at this point I’ve come to realize that if people are going to come at me for my views, that’s okay, but I’m not imposing my views on anyone. And I would prefer that people not impose their views on me.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. If only we could live in that world. Remember before Twitter?

Emily Ladau:
Oh, no. Unrelated.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, I’m just kidding by the way.

Emily Ladau:
We live next to an Asian family, and every night around, right when I need to go to bed, they start making whatever is the most delicious smelling food. And so I should be getting ready to go to bed, but instead I’m just like, “Can I come over for dinner?”

Kyle Khachadurian:
You got to find a way to get there. You got to find it

Emily Ladau:
Every night.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Do you know what it is?

Emily Ladau:
No. I don’t know what it is. I mean, I see that they often get deliveries from an Asian grocery store, but it just wafts into my apartment. And I’m just like, “Please, please, may I have some?”

Kyle Khachadurian:
There is an Indian family that lives across the hall, and I have that exact same problem. And I am scheming, I need to know how to get them to give me food. I want it so bad.

Emily Ladau:
But I don’t live in an apartment where people are like, “Let’s be friends and social.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Exactly, that’s the problem.

Emily Ladau:
I went to watch the eclipse outside on the lounge on the ninth floor of my apartment, and there were so many people out there and I was like, “Oh my God, you all actually live here?”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Isn’t it wild how many of your neighbors you’d never see? And then all of a sudden you have a moment like that where it’s like, “Oh.”

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. I was like, “Oh, wow. There really are people in this building.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah.

Emily Ladau:
But none of this has anything to do with a cure. But I mean, sometimes when we talk about a heavy topic, then you just want to talk about delicious smells and watching the eclipse, which by the way was so overrated, at least where I was.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, it didn’t look that good here. But where my sister lived, she got 95%. She sent me a picture and it was the coolest thing I’ve ever seen in my life.

Emily Ladau:
Oh, I want to see that. I’m pretty jealous.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I’m saving my pennies to go to Spain and do wherever the next one is in 2026. I’m like, I’m going to see that. Because that was, I’m like, okay.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah. If I had cared more and landed in the path of totality, it might’ve been interesting. But here I was just like, I don’t care. But a neighbor was really nice and lent me their eclipse glasses because I couldn’t get my hands on a pair. So humanity is good sometimes, I guess.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I remember in 2017, during that eclipse, I got up from my desk and I was in an office building in Brooklyn, and the building I was in did not have windows that were facing the eclipse for whatever reason. But this other company was or did, and they had windows that were facing the sun and they invited us in there. We didn’t ask, they were just like, “Hey, you guys want to come see the eclipse?” And we were like, “Hell, yeah.” And that was fun.

Emily Ladau:
So you’re not supposed to look directly at it?

Kyle Khachadurian:
We didn’t, we had a CD that we reflect the sun off of and then the reflection of it-

Emily Ladau:
Okay.

Kyle Khachadurian:
But-

Emily Ladau:
Well, the other funny part-

Kyle Khachadurian:
[inaudible 00:40:11] I don’t know what that is.

Emily Ladau:
I tried to last, I didn’t care all. And then last minute I tried to make an eclipse viewer out of a box of gluten free taco shells and…

Kyle Khachadurian:
Can you say a wider sentence?

Emily Ladau:
No, I can’t.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I was just curious

Emily Ladau:
That I bought a Target.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, there you go. That’s it.

Emily Ladau:
And that would not-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Did you actually buy them at Target? Oh my God.

Emily Ladau:
Bought them at Target.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Jesus, I love it.

Emily Ladau:
That’s so funny. But anyway-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Then I yelled at my neighbor for being near my lawn.

Emily Ladau:
It didn’t work, so I threw it out and then the lady took pity on me and gave me her glasses, but yeah. Wow.

Kyle Khachadurian:
What a ride.

Emily Ladau:
Cures.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Cures.

Emily Ladau:
So final takeaways?

Kyle Khachadurian:
I don’t really think that I’ve come to, usually you convince me in some direction. I either change my mind slightly or you reaffirm what I already believe. I don’t think that, I am not saying it’s your job to because it isn’t, but I’ve become so accustomed to that. I just forgot what it’s like to end up in the same place that I was at when I started.

Emily Ladau:
Be your own person, Kyle, be your own person.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Give me that pill, God dammit. Then you can kick me out of The Accessible Stall. It’s not mine anymore.

Emily Ladau:
No. Well, you always have a place here. But I mean, you said something that actually might’ve changed my mind a little bit because I have always been the kind of person who’s like, “Yeah, I would just take it to get rid of the pain.”

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to make fun of you.

Emily Ladau:
Oh my God. No, you’re not making fun of me. If anything, I feel like you made me think about how, I think it’s almost like an unrealistic, all of this is unrealistic, but that especially.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s sort of why it pushed me over the edge. Because if I’m playing mind games with myself where I take away some of it, why not just take away all of it? I mean, it’s not going to happen. Having said that though, if it did exist, I mean, I don’t know if I would even hesitate. I wouldn’t though if there was any risk of anything averse, if any of this could get worse, I would not do it.

Emily Ladau:
Right. I mean, that’s the other hypothetical. And I know we just said final takeaways but-

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, and I’m sorry to do this, but 48 minutes in, I have to say I am 150,000 million percent for prevention, like preventative things. And there are a lot of those for CP specifically. I love them all. Love them all.

Emily Ladau:
Okay. But then how do you feel about all of those commercials that are like, “With your baby, was it a wrongful birth?” Or whatever.

Kyle Khachadurian:
What the hell’s a wrongful birth? That’s such a lawyer sense.

Emily Ladau:
No, I literally, I’m Googling this to see if I’m making this up, but I [inaudible 00:43:31]-

Kyle Khachadurian:
No, but to answer your question, regardless, I hate those commercials. And you know why? Because-

Emily Ladau:
Oh yeah, fetal defects.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Well, excuse me, where’s my million dollar payout? I’ve got a bunch of those. Or I had them, I’m not a fetus anymore.

Emily Ladau:
Yeah, it’s like if you have a defect after being born.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Excuse me, I was born barely alive at three pounds, three ounces. I’ll take my check, thank you.

Emily Ladau:
All right, well if you’re a lawyer, hit us up and get us a million dollars, please.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. I mean, come on. We’ll put it to good use.

Emily Ladau:
On that note…

Kyle Khachadurian:
I just realized that my shirt matches the chair I’m sitting in.

Emily Ladau:
And it’s a pink chair in case you were wondering.

Kyle Khachadurian:
This has been another episode of The Accessible Stall.

Emily Ladau:
Might we say you look absolutely stellar today.

Kyle Khachadurian:
It’s true. And there’s no accepts this week, you all are good.

Emily Ladau:
No, I probably usually say especially it’s not accepts.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I know, but the last episode I said, accept, I didn’t like it. I thought it’d be funny to say accept, but I felt mean, I didn’t want to be mean to whoever.

Emily Ladau:
Especially you, person.

Kyle Khachadurian:
I thought you were going to give a name.

Emily Ladau:
I was going to give a name, but then I was like, no, everyone’s beautiful.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah, everyone is beautiful.

Emily Ladau:
Wow. What a ride. What a ride this has been.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Yeah. Good night everybody.

Emily Ladau:
You’d like to support.

Kyle Khachadurian:
Oh, yeah. Wait, hold on. If you’d like to support The Accessible Stall for just $1 a month, if you do that next time, we’ll remember to put this at the beginning of the episode and ensure that all current and future episodes of The Accessible Stall remain. What? What do we do here?

Emily Ladau:
Accessible.

Kyle Khachadurian:
DJ [inaudible 00:45:31]. Good Night.