Emily: Hi, I’m Emily Ladau

Kyle: And I’m Kyle Khachadurian

Emily: And you’re listening to another episode of The Accessible Stall.

Kyle: What are we talking about today Emily? I actually don’t know this time

Emily: We need to talk about education in the disability community versus alienation in the disability community. And this is a topic that has been weighing on my mind really heavily. But, first I need to point out that Kyle and I haven’t podcasted in over a month probably. Or, around a month right?

Kyle: Something like that. I stopped listening around “aliens”

Emily: So…”You lost me at aliens” got it. Great. This is going to be a great conversation. Kyle, do you believe that we’re alone in the universe?

Kyle: No, I don’t

Emily: So Kyle believed in aliens..

Kyle: I’m not saying that extraterrestrial life are like green blobs with ovular almond eyes like they are in all Sci-Fi movies that are like, “Take me to your leader!” I just don’t think we’re alone because if we are that’s really sad.

Emily: So now that everyone’s feeling really existential, and we’ve probably launched them into a crisis, I’m gonna talk about alienation. Not aliens. But first, I need to tell a story. So are y’all ready for storytime?

Kyle: I love storytime Emily!

Emily: Great! So I was recently at a meeting…it was obviously a disability related meeting, so if you know anything about me from this podcast, you should know that that is all that I do with my life. But actually. So I was at a disability related meeting and we were all sitting and having a conversation, it was a room full of young people around my age and Kyle’s age, and…have we ever said our ages on the podcast?

Kyle: I’m 26!

Emily: Me too!

Kyle: We’re old.

Emily: Now that we got that out of the way…So I’m in a room full of people who are somewhere in their twenties, maybe a little bit older or younger, around there. And we’re talking about disability related issues and one young man raises his hand and he starts to ask the room if everyone is familiar with, “Light it Up Blue.” And for those of you who don’t know, “Light it Up Blue” is a campaign that was started by Autism Speaks, to “raise awareness” for Autism. And more on the issues with “Light it Up Blue” and Autism Speaks later, um but for now I’ll get back to the telling of the story. So basically this gentleman brought up “Light it Up Blue” and then he was proceeding to talk a little bit about himself. And everyone suddenly got really quiet. And they all looked around the room, and then they started “booing” him because he mentioned “Light It Up Blue. ” And he kept going, and he referred to himself while talking as “high-functioning.” And again, everyone in the room had this sort of snide, snarky reaction to what the guy was saying. And he finished what he was saying, and we moved on, and suddenly this guy got up, stormed out of the room, and slammed the door. And I had been stewing over the fact that he had been booed already was responded to in such a rude way. And then when he got up and showed how upset he was, I raised my hand and I told everybody in the room that what they did was really, really not cool. So basically, most disabled people that I’m aware of, considered Autism Speaks to be a hate group, and consider “Light it Up Blue” to be a symbol of hate. And most disabled people that I know don’t like functioning labels like, “high functioning” or “low functioning.” They don’t like defining people like that. However, I say “most disabled people” because nobody knows every disabled person, I was extremely, extremely frustrated by how this little microcosm of the disability community was so quick to basically show the worst side of the disability community. Beside that it is so quick to alienate and judge instead of extend a hand and educate. And this has been weighing on my mind since it happened, and I think we need to talk about why this is such a problem. So, that was my long story and now we’re gonna dissect it in twenty-six different ways.

Kyle: Sounds like a plan! Um okay, so you’re angry that the people in the room were angry at this guy

Emily: Yes

Kyle: For having an opinion that goes against the “greater autistic community” hivemind

Emily: Yes

Kyle: Because most autistic people I know also hate “Light it Up Blue” and Autism Speaks and all that jazz.

Emily: Yeah, and I also hate it. But the way that this gentleman was talking made it sound to me that he genuinely did not realize that what he was saying was not the majority opinion.

Kyle: But that’s okay. It could be that he’s uneducated about how bad Autism Speaks is. I mean they’re bad either way. If you come at the from the perspective of them being a hate group, okay, you probably don’t like them. And if you come at them from the perspective of being a charity, if you’re autistic like, they’re not a great charity either. There’s plenty of different ways to dislike Autism Speaks. It could be that he just didn’t know any of that…or he could have honestly believed in them. I don’t think every autistic person hates Autism Speaks. I would be surprised if the same type of person did anything in the same way, you know what I mean? So it could just be that he believed that, and either way that reaction is incorrect, right? Because if he didn’t know any better, what good is booing him gonna do except make sure that he never opens his mouth again? And if he does believe it, what kind of dialogue forum are you in that you booed dissenting opinions? So I think that’s wrong either way.

Emily: Yeah so I was frustrated because I was thinking back to how long it’s taken me to get to a specific mindset around disability. I think that my views have evolved and are continuing to evolve, and I wonder if even just a few years ago, I could have been a person who was booed out of the room. Because I didn’t exactly know what the popular opinion or the right opinion about disability was.

Kyle: Well, you’re shaking your head. If the pressure is that you always have to have the popular opinion, then you don’t have an opinion. Right? I mean, you do. But if your opinion is the exact same as everyone else’s, you’re not getting anything done, you’re just yelling into a megaphone. So I think that you know shunning away dissenters, people who support Autism Speaks, or people who don’t like to use the word disabled or people who, I don’t know think that the only disability in life is a bad attitude…I know we like to make fun of that, but those people are real you know? And we don’t dislike them, we just dislike the slogan. And it’s like, I really agree with you. I think that that’s entirely unhealthy for the “greater good” of the disability community.

Emily: I just think that disabled people are too quick to assume that there’s a fundamental set of beliefs that we all hold. And while I agree that there are some things I wish were universally held beliefs, I realize that not everyone is of the same mindset or the same opinion. And especially because this guy sounded like he just didn’t know that Autism Speaks is considered a bad thing. You know, meet him where he’s at, and instead of booing him and upsetting him, and basically kicking him out of the room with your hateful, raw, emotional response, why can’t you just meet this person where they’re at and say, “Hey, did you know that autistic people find Autism Speaks to be harmful? Have you ever heard of The Autistic Self-Advocacy Network? No? Oh let me tell you about it!” Like, why is that so hard to be like that?

Kyle: And the other thing is… You said was in regards to people getting upset that he was calling himself high-functioning? Let people call themselves whatever they want! Seriously. Don’t tell people what to refer to themselves as. Someone calling themselves “high functioning” does no harm to you at all. So don’t do that.

Emily: Yeah, and I used to be super guilty of being on my Identity- First Language versus Person- First Language crusade. So you know, “disabled person” versus “person with a disability.” And for the longest time I wanted everyone to see it my way, that it was “disabled person” and not “person with a disability.” But quite honestly, if I was communicating with me? If I was myself having that crusade, while talking to me several years ago who was having a bit of a disability identity crisis? I would’ve not liked me. I would’ve not felt welcoming to myself. Am I making any sense here?

Kyle: Yeah man, I mean it’s like…this is a horrible analogy and I apologize to the poor people who have to listen to this, but it’s like the “On This Day” on Facebook, right? You ever read something you wrote like nine years ago on Facebook and go, “Aw man, who the hell is that?”

Emily: Oh my God, yeah! That’s not a horrible example, that’s actually like a really great comparison.

Kyle: Yeah but it’s like, if you don’t do that to yourself every like, year or so and then you can’t find a single thing that you’re like, “Man, I was a jerk!” Than you haven’t grown up yet.

Emily: Yeah I was gonna say, you’re not evolving and you’re not growing. And I know for a fact that my views have evolved. But it took me time to get to where I am and there’s a very good chance that my views are going to continue to evolve when it comes to disability. I’m not saying that I’m this fully evolved human when it comes to that. What I am saying is that if I had experienced that level of being alienated from people who keep claiming to be my community? While I was still trying to accept myself as I am? I would’ve been so discouraged, that I would want nothing to do with them! So what are you accomplishing but shutting out and shaming the very people who you purport to welcome?

Kyle: I mean, you’re preaching to the choir. Oh wait, by the way, I think you mentioned this but just so that we are perfectly clear because sometimes we have to be…The gentleman you’re talking about is autistic.

Emily: Oh yes, yes.

Kyle: I think you said that, but just to make that perfectly black and white because you know, it matters in this case. Yeah no, I mean like we could probably do a whole episode on like, “Capital “D” DIsabled” versus you know, “Having a disability.” Like, being a member of the community versus just being disabled.

Emily: Right

Kyle: But I think that this particular area is one where that idea intersects with the rest of the world because yeah, in the disability community there are certain groups of beliefs that if you don’t have, not that they don’t like you. I mean, they’ll talk to you, right? But like, you just won’t get as far as you would talking to someone who does hold those beliefs. And I don’t really know if there’s a correct answer. Well, let me put it this way, I think if you’re gonna try to convince someone to think your way, you have to like, lead them over and you can’t try to force them or embarrass them into thinking your way. You have to show them why your way is correct, and then you have to give them the opportunity to weigh your options, and then realize that they might still not agree with you. And that doesn’t automatically make someone your enemy, it just makes them different.

Emily: It’s also difficult to get people to see things your way right away when they’ve been seeing things a certain way possibly their entire lives.

Kyle: Oh my God, that’s such a good point.

Emily: Now, I’m making a ton of assumptions about this guy right now, the autistic gentleman who brought up, “Light it Up Blue” and used a functioning label to refer to himself. But, hypothetically speaking, what if that is all he’s ever known? You know, do I wish that everybody knew that The Autistic Self -Advocacy Network was a thing? Absolutely! But is that the reality right now? Unfortunately, not. And so, I think the best way to make that a reality is by not pushing people away by trying to push your views on them. It has to be a give and take. It needs to be an open dialogue, you need to let people know that there are organizations out there that are truly supportive of disability identity. But you can’t do it while rejecting wherever a person’s identity is at, at the current moment. You just can’t do that.

Kyle: And you know that’s the other thing, you know convincing someone to change the way they identify themselves? That’s hard! (chuckles) It’s hard to do it yourself! In fact, take how long it took you to accept yourself for however it is you refer to yourself? It’s gonna be longer for everyone else! Because you understand you, and you had to learn to understand whatever it is you identify as. I’m talking disability, sexual orientation, race, gender, whatever. Anything…as longlong as it took you, it will probably take someone longer. A stranger especially. And so, I mean it’s not to say that anger doesn’t have it’s place, it certainly does. But when you’re faced with somebody who’s only crime is referring to themselves in the “older” accepted way, or the “not so accepted” way, but you can clearly tell that their heart’s in the right place? I don’t know, it sounds corny but that’s basically what it is. You know, I really think that shunning them is the worst thing you can do. Because that guarantees they weren’t your enemy before but they might be now. You know, that’s the kind of person who might no longer want anything to do with you. Whoever you are in this case.

Emily: Exactly! And I think that I got very lucky, because as I was grappling with my identity that was around the same time that I was starting to meet people who were loud, proud disability activists. I think they had a very positive impact on me. I also think that everyone’s who’s disabled should have positive influences like that. And when I say “positive influence” I mean not being on so hard on you if your views are different. Or if you’re still coming to terms with yourself as a disabled person. Or if you’re still not super comfortable with being around a giant group of disabled people. I mean, hell, like a couple years ago, no, more than a couple years ago I’m like an old lady now, but there was a time when I was very uncomfortable being in public with multiple disabled people. I used to hate that

Kyle: Really?

Emily: Oh absolutely!

Kyle: See I grew up with that so I never had the chance to hate it.

Emily: Yeah, but again, anyone just talking to you on the street would not know that’s where you’re coming from.

Kyle: Oh for sure.

Emily: But again, this is what I mean about not making assumptions! So me, you would think, or you’d be inclined to think, that I’m the one in the wheelchair, so I must not have any problem with disability. But I used to be that person that if there was another wheelchair user, like, I’m talking people other than my mother, my mother never really counted to me.

Kyle: Like, near you, you’d look the other way and be like “Oh, my God?”

Emily: Oh my gosh, yes! It was so embarrassing to me!

Kyle: I know that feeling, man!

Emily: I was like, “Your wheelchair calls more attention to my wheelchair, and your disability makes me look more disabled so please keep a hundred feet between us at all times!” But now I’m like, “Put me near as many disabled people as possible” I don’t care what a circus I look like when I’m with disabled people. I love it. I eat that sh*t up! But I still encounter random disabled people like, I’ll see another wheelchair user on an elevator when I’m going somewhere. And they will look away from me like I would’ve looked away from them about five years ago. So it’s all about evolving and meeting people where they’re at, and accepting that not everyone is in the same place as you. And rather than being harsh about it, being accepting and open about it, and trying to actually have a productive dialogue so that we don’t alienate other disabled people from our already fragile community.

Kyle: I agree completely. I don’t think you should go into a discussion like that trying to convince someone to see it your way. I think the best way…and I’m not you know I’m not some master orator so I’m just talking straight out of my butt right now but I really think the best way is to like, let them know that there are other ways of looking at something. We’re using disability in this example, so yeah, there are other ways of looking at disability, and you know here’s what they are, and if any of these sound better than what you currently believe… then go from there. But, if you know, try to “Join or Die!” If you’re like, “Believe what we believe or you’re not one of us!” Like that’s not… I can’t express how much I hate that. That’s just the worst way to do anything!

Emily: Just to the counterpoint, I hate groupthink. I do think there are some ways to think that are you know, better, if not necessarily more right. But I do think it may take you some time to get there. So do I feel like my viewpoints are slightly better for the overarching disability community? Yes. Like, am I willing to put my nose in the air for a little bit and be like, “Uh yeah obviously it’s better to say ‘disabled person’ than ‘person with a disability’ like, everybody should know that.”

Kyle: Well, yeah but I mean that’s just you having convictions though. That’s just you believing what you believe…enough. Which is good! Everyone should do that. But you’re not so close-minded to think that there aren’t other ways, and I know you well enough to know that if someday something better came along, you probably would change your view.

Emily: I have my deal-breakers though. I cringe when people are like, “I’m a special needs person.” No your not, stop that.

Kyle: (chuckles) My favorite thing is,“Everyone has a special need?” It’s just such a big… Everyone with glasses has a special need! (sighs) Look, your mind shouldn’t be so deadset in what you believe, even if you’re right that you think that there’s a possibility that you might be wrong about something, that you can never change what you believe. That’s also not to say that you shouldn’t have conviction. But seriously like…If you don’t believe in aliens and tomorrow NASA puts out a report that there were extraterrestrial non-carbon based life outside of the solar system, and you still didn’t believe in aliens, I’d call you stupid.

Emily: I gotta say I really appreciate that you brought it back around to the aliens

Kyle: You know me man, I always bring it back around to aliens!

(both laugh)

Kyle: No but I’m saying, I’m just saying that there’s a difference between being open-minded and being close-minded under the pretense of being open-minded which is exactly the kind of people that were sitting in the audience with you booing this poor man.

Emily: The other thing is, disability is not really a “right” or “wrong” thing. I think there are a lot of things that are wrong for me, and I think there are a lot of organizations that are generally wrong and harmful but I think that we lose sight of disability being a highly individualistic thing. So yes, I think it should be common knowledge that “Autism Speaks” is just the absolute worst and a bunch of nonsense. But in our collective dislike of an organization, we also seem to forget that there are many, many, many individuals who will have different viewpoints I don’t think what I’m saying is exactly aligned with…

Kyle: No no no, I got you. I’m with you. 100% I actually pretty much agree with you. I mean, I’ve said on this show a bunch of times that disability is individualistic, right? But what is a community without…A community is not a community if you don’t have shared beliefs. That’s what makes a community a community. That’s like, the “thing” that makes it one. So you know, obviously there’s gonna be some agreed upon thing, whether or not it’s conscious about what it means to be part of the disability community. And you know, we’ve struggled on coming up with what they might be. I think the only thing we came up with before was that more places should be accessible. And Universal Design is a cute idea. I’m sure there are others, but like past that, there’s a very bare bones definition of what it means right? And like Emily, I’ve found that when you’re welcoming a new person into the fold, that very often, not always…but very often we’re not very welcoming as a people, you know? And I want us to do better.

Emily: No we’re intense! That is what we are.

Kyle: Yeah

Emily: And it can come across as intimidating. You’re absolutely right though, one thing that I think is important to think about is that communities do need certain binding beliefs.

Kyle: Well that’s what community is. I wasn’t being funny like..

Emily: No no no, you’re a 100% right! But I think our major binding belief is we’re all human beings. I would think everyone would say that…

Kyle: Hmmm, yeah…yeah… okay…I actually agree with you! If nothing else, that’s definitely it. But then by virtue of that, we would have to be accepting of individuals who refer to themselves as labels we may not like, or who might not realize that certain charities don’t have their constituents best interest at heart. And we’re not. So either, that’s not really the core component of the disability community, or they don’t believe that. And I don’t know what the answer is because I am 100% in agreement with you. It’s a tough nut to crack, I don’t really think there’s an answer to this. There’s also the good old adage of you know, “Don’t be a di*k!” Which I think we all need to learn a little bit.

Emily: Oh my God, you gotta bleep that out.

Kyle: Yeah

(Both laugh)

Kyle: I don’t want to sound like we’re coming off as mean either so like, it’s so tough!

Emily: No, but this needs to be talked about! Because I was just so, so angry at the thought that we would be quicker to push someone who we want to be one of our own, out rather than being supportive. And I think that support looks like different things. Do I think that you need to be supportive of a viewpoint that you disagree with? No. Keep your disagreements, keep your opinions, hold onto your convictions! But…don’t do that at the cost of pushing other people so far away from understanding your viewpoint that they’re never gonna wanna come around to meet you.

Kyle: Especially not at a conference specifically made for this exact type of…

Emily: But this is where it happens the most often. The disability community is the worst at this.

Kyle: Right, but isn’t that indicative of a huge…I mean, we’re talking about it but it’s a huge problem! The one place that it shouldn’t happen! I mean, it shouldn’t happen anywhere but really the one place it shouldn’t happen is at a conference for all people with disabilities to come and discuss ideas and stuff.

Emily: Safe spaces are a difficult thing

Kyle: Forgetting that…I mean you’re right, but still. It’s a conference.

Emily: Well yeah! But here’s the other thing

Kyle: I’m sorry what were you saying Because I totally just…

Emily: No, you’re find because this is sort of a half-baked thought right now, but I was just reflecting on the fact that the other assumption that I’m very quick to make about disabled people is that we are all democrats…

Kyle: Oh God. We’re not!

Emily: No, of course not, and like, I think I’ve had to learn that the hard way a few times. I also think that I’m not going to like you if you voted for Donald Trump and you’re disabled. And that’s just that. I’m not even gonna try to get you to come around to my side, and I’m sure as hell not gonna let you get me to come around to your side.

Kyle: At this point I feel the need to like, I mean in 2017…and I’m not being facetious, I really don’t think that party labels matter anymore. There’s a huge difference between a Conservative, A Trump supporter, and a Republican. And there’s a huge difference between a Liberal, a Progressive and a Democrat.

Emily: Right.

Kyle: So I mean…And I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re a 100% right. But you know, so many people fear the “R Word” Not re*ar*ed but, Republican. Like you hear that word and it’s like, “Oh you must think….” It’s like, “No no no! There’s a huge gap between your beliefs and what that words says!” It’s the same thing with Democrat, right? So that’s the perfect example of how labels lead to assumptions of belief. And I know with political parties it’s somewhat obvious, right because that’s what they’re supposed to do? But I really believe that in the context of like party names, they’ve lost every meaning. And it happens in disability too! Like we tend as a group to shun people who are disabled who don’t like calling themselves that. I know plenty of people with Cerebral Palsy who don’t like the word, who just like to say, “I have CP” Are they our enemy? I don’t think so, I don’t. But someone might. And I’m not in the business of convincing them to change how they refer to themselves. I would like them to I guess? Unless they really don’t want to. But that’s their business!

Emily: I guess I was just saying that my argument about “Educate Rather Than Alienate” and “Accept People if They Have Different Views” I’m not extending that to you if you’re a Trump supporter, I’m just not. (chuckles)

Kyle: I understand that but you…okay, and you’re well within your rights but at the same time, I mean, you’re still gonna hold a door open for them. You’re not gonna intentionally be rude are you? I mean maybe, I don’t know I’m asking you!

Emily: No, I ‘m nice to people of differing political beliefs than me!

Kyle: That’s the difference!

Emily: Only because, “Do unto others as others would do unto you” is something I really believe.

Kyle: Right, okay so you’re still right. There are certain things you can’t convince me of. I have things that I won’t believe. If you try to tell me the Earth is flat, I will top listening to you.

Emily: Of course!

Kyle: It’s that kind of thing, everyone has that line. And for you it’s “Oh yeah if you’re a Trump supporter we probably won’t get along” That’s fine, um I can’t think of one…That flat Earth one is a facetious one, but that’s a pretty good example too.

Emily: Or like, “The Sun orbits the Earth,” instead of “The Earth orbits the Sun.”

Kyle: Right. I mean if you’re three, then you get a pass but that’s about it. Those things are facts, right? Disability, there are facts there bt a lot of it’s just opinions and personal views. So I don’t know man, if your gonna attack somebody… If your first instinct upon hearing a dissenting opinion that’s different from yours only in opinion and not fact, and your first instinct is to attack them? Then you’re not being the activist you think you are, you’re being a bully. That’s what you are. And you should hear that.

Emily: And that was how I felt it was going down in this meeting. I felt that this guy was bullied unnecessarily, for no reason other than people weren’t willing to take the time to meet him where he was at. And I’m not saying I agree with his views. I’m merely saying, be a little more thoughtful about how you respond to people!

Kyle: You can disagree with someone and not be a bi*ch!

Emily: Kyle really likes the “B” word.

Kyle: Yo, you cursed like twice too, I don’t tell you that we have to bleep stuff every time you curse man!

(Emily laughs)

Kyle: Why do you do that to me? That’s rude! Nah man it’s not rude…

Emily: There’s a couple things we need to bleep.

Kyle: Seriously. Seriously though, I mean like we’ve said this like a hundred times but we just can’t say it enough!

Emily: I know we’re beating a dead horse at this point

Kyle: I don’t think we are though, I really don’t. Cause this happens every time! We’re beating a dead horse because we’ve talked about doing this for a week but I truly…I’m disgusted hearing it from you. Like if I was there? I don’t know man.

Emily: Right but you don’t even need to be there to know exactly what I’m talking about because we have seen this happen! We have seen this happen on the internet. We have seen it happen we have conversations online. We have seen it happen in groups where people have dissenting opinions. I mean, we’ve happen on television, in the media. Everywhere. Everywhere.

Kyle: I don’t know so, I guess like if I had to sum this up in like a sentence I guess just like, somebody with a dissenting opinion is not automatically your enemy, and if you want them to be your friend it’s your job to help them get there. That’s all there is to it. And I think that, I mean I’d like to believe that groupthink in the disability community is not as big as we think it is, because we do live in a bubble where everyone is very loud and boisterous about what they do believe and that’s fine. But you know the more time goes by, the more and more either that bubble grows or the more and more wrong we’re proven! I just think we need to be better, you know? If you believe you’re open minded, and you do this? You’re not open-minded…right? Open-mindedness is being able to entertain an idea without agreeing with it. And if your idea of entertaining an idea is booing someone out a room, you’re just a bully! You’re not open-minded, you’re a bully. Sorry I said it like four times…

Emily: No, you’re right. I do really, really believe that it’s possible for context to play into this. So if you hear somebody say something and you know that they’re already educated on the issue then maybe a stronger reaction is warranted? But (sighs)…don’t be mean! I don’t even know what I’m saying, just don’t be mean!

Kyle: You said something interesting just before though. When do you just agree to disagree? Because I’m saying like… So you’re pro identity-first language, right? If you met someone who was just as educated as you who’s pro “person-first,” you’re not gonna think of them as like a heretic. You’re just gonna be like, “Hey man, cool but…” So I mean, I think the answer to “When to agree to disagree?” is when you’re both just fundamentally different and not being mean then, that’s it. You know that person, and you to them, are no longer potential constituents to convert to your side. But that doesn’t mean they’re your enemy. I don’t know. Maybe that’s a weird belief. I don’t know. Emily, is the enemy of your enemy your friend?

Emily: The age old question!

Kyle: I’d say no, like I don’t even have to think about it

Emily: No!

Kyle: But I think it only becomes tough, stop me if I’m wrong…I think it only becomes tough when you do have somebody who’s as educated as you. Or more even! Especially more. In fact, when tend to get louder when the person is more educated because we know we’re not. And they have an opinion that we as a group think is dissenting. Then in that case, okay, I’m not saying that loudness and boisterousness don’t have a place. I don’t know, certainly not in a way that someone is referring to themselves in a way that you don’t like. Like that’s…leave them alone.

Emily: No don’t leave them alone! But if you must, engage in a thoughtful and respectful conversation.

Kyle: Yeah. I take that back, don’t leave them alone. Unless he says, “Leave me alone.” In which case…

Emily: Then they’re a lost cause (chuckles)

Kyle: Yeah well then leave them alone! I don’t know, I don’t know…Final takeaways?

Emily: Disability is already so nuanced and complex that we would all do well to help each other out rather than push each other away.

Kyle: Don’t be a bully. Do unto others like you would have done unto you. Don’t do unto others as you would not have been done unto you. Gold and Silver Rules are to live by. Just do that, and you’ll be fine. Emily? You got something on your mind? You’re like staring…

Emily: I am just so dumbfounded. Truly. I mean, I’m usually not a loss for words but I’m just…

Kyle: This is it! Thirty some odd episodes and we’ve reached Emily’s breaking point. I get pissed off every episode, this was it, this was hers!

(Emily chuckles)

Kyle: Aw she’s like red as a tomato right now you should see her guys! Oh God, she’s about to explode! Anyway, this has been another episode of The Accessible Stall. I’m Kyle, she’s Emily, Normally I’d let her say that but uh

(Emily chuckles)

Emily: I can’t talk! I’m so overcome

Kyle: She says that she can’t talk

(Emily laughs)

Kyle: And we will see you next time! Thank you, and goodnight!

Emily: Bye!