Emily Ladau
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Kyle Khachadurian
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Emily Ladau
Hi, I’m Emily Ladau.

Kyle Khachadurian
And I’m Kyle Khachadurian.

Emily Ladau
And you’re listening to another episode of The Accessible Stall.

Kyle Khachadurian
What are we going to talk about today, Emily?

Emily Ladau
Hashtags, hashtags, hashtags, they’re my favorite.

Kyle Khachadurian
What’s a hashtag? I’ve never heard of them or use them ever.

Emily Ladau
It would probably be better if I didn’t explain hashtags. So instead, I’m going to turn it over to our very special guest, who is one of my favorite humans. And one of the coolest activists I know. Will you introduce yourself, special guest?

Imani Barbarin
Absolutely. It’s Imani. Imani Barbain from crutchesandspice.com.

Emily Ladau
Oh, my God, you guys, I’m so excited. Okay, so this has nothing to do with anything. But I met Imani for the first time at SXSW earlier this month, and she’s the best person ever. I just love her so much. But, um… more than that. I was well aware of her for quite a long time, before we actually met in person, because Imani just knows how to kill it on Twitter.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, I get in a lot of trouble on Twitter, but I don’t care.

Emily Ladau
Well see, that’s that’s the thing. I feel like I need to embrace this. Um, so with that in mind, what is a hashtag? And I don’t necessarily mean a dictionary definition. But how would you define hashtags, especially as you use them.

Imani Barbarin
So I always have to explain what a hashtag is to co-workers because I work in communications. And so I described it kind of like you’re in a crowded cocktail room, and everybody’s talking about everything under the sun. And people that are by the punch bowl, are talking about books, and the people by the windows are talking about cocktails, or alcohol or whatever. And so, hashtag is something like a bookmark, it allows you to bookmark conversations, so you can participate in them when you want to. And so the more visibility, a hashtag gets, the more people are talking about it. So the more people will talk about it, the more people see it, more visibility, the more people talk about it. So it’s, um, it’s kind of like a movement in several characters.

Emily Ladau
I absolutely love the visual of people at a party and sort of humanizing it and taking it off of the Twitter-verse.

Kyle Khachadurian
I also love a movement and several characters. I was very clever. That’s really good.

Imani Barbarin
Thank you.

Emily Ladau
So Imani, you’re basically the hashtag queen.

Why our hashtags so important to the disability community? And we can talk about some of the specific hashtags that you’ve done. But really, hashtags in general are this huge part of disability. Um, there’s so many examples that I can think of some recent ones that I really like are #AccessIsLove, started by Alice, Wong, Sandy Ho, and Mia Mingus. And then there was also hashtag #100outof100, which, oh, my God all about inter-abled relationships And I don’t mean this in the inspirational kind of way, but I was scrolling through that hashtag on Instagram and just tearing up.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, well, one of the things that, like, I feel like, I feel like a lot of able bodied people do not understand is important for hashtags for disability, and so the last thing you want to do, as a public figure, like Dr. Phil, who was the inspiration behind it, and more of an infamous kind of way, is piss off a bunch of people for whom community is built online. So high five.

Kyle Khachadurian
That’s a good point

Imani Barbarin
So, disabled people, hashtags, and social media, especially, are a way to build community, because disability can be so isolating at times, you know, not everything is accessible, your body is hurting all the time. And you want to be able to commiserate with people that are like you and experience the same things. And so hashtags, allow people to talk about the things that affect their lives by diagnosis, by topic, or by just whatever inspires them in the in that moment. And so is extremely important to the disability community.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, having that ability to jump on Twitter, or Instagram and be like, this is what I need to talk about right now. And knowing that there’s probably a hashtag for that conversation.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah.

Emily Ladau
It’s really powerful.

Imani Barbarin
It is. And I feel like it’s almost like people opening the door to you and saying, welcome in, we know, we’re going through, let’s sit down and talk about it. And that’s so comforting.

Emily Ladau
Isn’t there a risk, though, where non disabled people come in, and they’re like, I’m going to trample all over your hashtag, because I totally get what you’re talking about, or I totally disagree what you’re talking about with what you’re talking about.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, it happens all the time. Even with the last hashtag I created, which was #AbledsAreWeird able bodied people wanted to create a counter hashtag, disabled people are weird. I was like, well, that’s kind of the point, what I’m talking about, you already treat us like we’re weird, which is why we’re talking about it. So there’s always going to be push back. And there’s always going to be people that try to muddy the waters. But there are people that are genuinely looking to reach out and communicate with one another. And that’s who I’m here for.

Emily Ladau
And we’ll link to the hashtags that we reference, but #AbledsAreWeird is your latest one.

Kyle Khachadurian
Yes. And my favorite one too.

Imani Barbarin
I’m so glad.

I could not expect for that to take off. Like it did. Um, I actually tweeted it right before I went to bed. And then I repeated a couple of people that tweet under that hashtag. And then I went to sleep. And then wake up the next morning, it’s somebody messaged me, it’s like you’re trending.

Kyle Khachadurian
And that must have been a nice surprise.

Imani Barbarin
Well, I mean, I was confused as to why.

Kyle Khachadurian
Oh, yeah. You didn’t know why. Yeah, that’s right. Yes. Like, what what did I do?

Imani Barbarin
Exactly? Did I say something wrong? And, yeah, people really responded to it. And I often reflect on the ways in which were treated, that are just plain strange that if an able bodied person have to go through that, he’d be like, seeing these. These were these were just weird. This is just objectively weird. And so I felt like other people could feel that way, too. Yeah.

Emily Ladau
I feel that way on a regular basis. And, the thing about #AbledsAreWeird is that I actually didn’t jump on the bandwagon right away. Because I could not figure out which story I wanted to tweet.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah.

Well, it’s funny. So Emily and I were at SXSW, and like, we were in our scooters going down the street, and somebody says something to you. He goes, Oh, he’s like, he’s like, you better slow down. What did he say?

Emily Ladau
I think it was like you better slow down so you don’t hurt anyone? Or just, I don’t know, one of those annoying comments.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah. And you went like, look over your shoulder was like, Yeah, I haven’t heard that 1000 times today and like rolled off. And it was the funniest thing. But those type of things happen every single day.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, it’s like people think they’re so funny, but it’s like, you’re not funny. You’re annoying. And also, I think that having you with me, might have emboldened me, because I get very nervous when I’m on my own. But when I’m with another disabled person, I’m just like, yeah, I’m gonna tell you how you just made me feel.

Kyle Khachadurian
We actually went through that on the last episode, you were telling a similar story about how you don’t usually get to feel emboldened and how you disappointed that you couldn’t sic yourself on the person because they were just being nice.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, this is a problem that I run into on a regular basis. And my mother actually just called me on my newfound discovery that I like to call people out on their s*** when they say things to me.

She was like, someone’s gonna punch you one day.

Imani Barbarin
Well, I mean, yeah, but like,

Kyle Khachadurian
it’s not good optics, though. No one’s gonna punch the girl in the wheelchair.

Emily Ladau
I hope not.

Imani Barbarin
Play upon that. Like just be like, do you really want to go down this road? Because I have a camera.

Kyle Khachadurian
Plus you’re wearing glasses. It’s like a two fold th–AND you’re a woman. That’s like three things that you don’t do.

Emily Ladau
Oh, yeah. Never punch someone with glass on their face. Yeah. I ball now that we’ve established how to handle yourself with a disabled person. Don’t punch them. Etiquette 101

Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah. Don’t don’t punch people’s pretty high up on that list of things not to do.

Imani Barbarin
Just don’t touch us.

Emily Ladau
Oh, my God. Yeah,

Kyle Khachadurian
no, no, that’s a real one. That’s what that one wasn’t a joke, everybody. That’s a real one.

Imani Barbarin
But don’t touch us. It’s just weird. Like, stop like, and one of the reasons that you Sorry, one sec. So I think that you pointed to that your mother had said that people are just being nice or that you said that people just being nice. That’s part of the issue. Right? It’s like just because you’re trying to be nice, does not mean I want your help or want you touching me to justify it saying you want to help. It’s just insulting to my intelligence.

Emily Ladau
And I feel like that connects really well to another hashtag that you created. Again, hashtag queen.

#ThingsDisabledPeopleKnow.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah. Um, yeah. So I, I tweeted that hashtag, after the whole Bryan Cranston, the upside scandal, which feels like a scandal within our own community, but nobody else was really upset by it, like us. And so a lot of the pushback from the article that I wrote about Bryan Cranston than taking this role when it could have gone to a disabled performer, because that will disabled people have nothing to add, to say, well, you will have no talent. That was the general theme that people categorize an entire population of nearly a fifth of this country, see me they have no talent, or nothing to add, and no nuance to give. And so #ThingsDisabledPeopleKnow really discussed the ways in which disabled people know things about being disabled, that you can’t get outside of lived experience.

Emily Ladau
And how do people stumble upon these hashtag so the people who need to be hearing this stuff? I mean, this is what I always think about, I feel like, we tend to exist in a bubble, Kyle and I talk about this all the time.

Kyle Khachadurian
Shouting into the void.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, getting outside that echo chamber. I mean, and I know, there’s no perfect science to how you reach people, quote, unquote, on the outside.

But what’s been your experience with, you know, people who really need to be reading the messages on the hashtags actually getting exposed to it?

Imani Barbarin
It’s a real big hit or miss. Um, I find that. So I study analytics a lot on my own profile, a little Twitter trick for anybody who has Twitter, every profile has an analytics attached to it in on the desktop of your Twitter profile. So I kind of look at who’s following me, as well as what times to post and what are my most effective posts, so, but even with all that knowledge, it’s really a crapshoot of who’s paying attention at that exact time. And that plays a lot into the way these hashtags are successful.

And I really tried to make them as open as possible, I find that the hashtags I create are most effective, because they give disabled people an opportunity to talk to one another, rather than shout outward to the void.

And I find that that’s the best way to build communities to give people a chance to relate.

Emily Ladau
Have you seen real world impact of your hashtags? Because that’s the other thing that Kyle and I talk about a lot is, how can we move this off the internet and have an actual impact on people outside of that?

Imani Barbarin
Well, more and more people are asking me to speak publicly and give presentations on ableism and things like that. You can email me on my profile.

Emily Ladau
Don’t worry, we’ll link all your good stuff.

Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah, don’t worry about that.

Imani Barbarin
Um, but yeah, so a lot of people are asking me to do it in real time, and they’re really opening up to talking to me, but I do get a lot of one on one messages from people saying, you’ve opened my eyes. But it’s really hard to gauge whether this will actually change anything, I don’t think it’ll be, it’ll be 10 years out when I can really feel like I see the results of the work I’m doing now. And that’s a little frustrating, because you feel like you’re trying to push the needle trying to push the needle. And you can’t really tell if any of it’s working.

Emily Ladau
I worry about that all the time. I’m like, why am I doing this? Some days, I literally wake up and I’m like, Is anybody going to listen today. And I don’t mean that in a pessimistic way. I just started mean it in a way like I need to refocus and recenter myself and be like, there is a bigger purpose to all of this.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah. And it feels kind of like, activism feels like No Child Left Behind, where we’re constantly kind of like repeating the exact same message over and over again, in the hopes that as many people as possible get it.

And we keep reiterating the exact same points and facts. And it’s really hard to feel like you’re actually making any sort of a difference. So I really do appreciate when people reach out to me and say, You’ve really helped me to see A, B, or C. But it’s really hard.

Kyle Khachadurian
So I have a question for you, though.

Why do you think people–and I’m going to make the worst phrase ever into a verb right now, everybody, so stand back? Why do you think people “all lives matter” your hashtags? I know that. We talked about #AbledsAreWeird, like, five whole minutes ago, but when you said that there was a counter hashtag started.

Because of it. I just couldn’t shake that. It’s like…

Imani Barbarin
Yeah,

Kyle Khachadurian
Because like you said, you know, the reason that you made that hashtag is because that’s what a lot of people think of us anyway. And I was curious if you had any thoughts as to why people might do that. Except the, you know, the hollow answer of well, you know, they just don’t like being involved in something they can’t be in which like, Yeah, but I don’t know, what’s your, what are your thoughts on that?

Imani Barbarin
Well, I feel like

I’m also black. I see this with black lives matter too, which, and I feel like, if they can establish a moral equivalence, then their actions don’t feel as bad. Or they don’t feel as responsible to change them, either. That’s why I feel like people “all lives matter”. Really, any hashtag that is giving voice to marginalized people. Because if you call somebody out, and then you try to call them out, it’s basically whataboutism, and trying to disperse some of the blame of your own actions on to other people, even though that’s not really what’s being addressed at the time.

Emily Ladau
It’s very much like, also, “not all able people” thing. I noticed that too. Yeah, I feel like whenever I sort of comb through the dialogue that your hashtags tend to start, you have all these people who were like, Hey, you need to be paying attention to what these disabled people are saying. And then you have someone who’s too busy comparing their oppression to the oppression of disabled people, or black disabled people especially, or you have people who are like, but what about me? Or you people who are like, well, I don’t do that. And it’s like…

Kyle Khachadurian
I just never understood the “but I don’t do that” people. Because it’s like, in any situation, not just this one. It’s like, we know, not everyone does all of these things. No one is saying that. It’s just that this is a real world example of things that happen.

Emily Ladau
But you’ve also probably been guilty of something like it at some point.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah,

Kyle Khachadurian
Oh, of course.

Yeah. And I, I know that makes you feel bad. But like, that’s the point. You gotta, look at yourself. I don’t know.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, hold a mirror like actually evaluate things. And can I just say, I have no, like, desire to handle the feelings of able bodied people when it comes to disability, none at all. Everything we every way in which we talk about disability is meant for able bodied understanding, meant to make them feel better around us, meant to coddle them meant to make hope that they understand. And I’m not going to be one more person that does that.

Emily Ladau
I think that’s why you get yourself in trouble so much

Kyle Khachadurian
nobody mean, but but we need that’s that’s a valid position in this world. You know, Emily, and I, we play the good cops a lot. And in fact, I Well, I, me more than you. But we do need people like you that that just don’t have time for that s***.

Imani Barbarin
It bothers me that people try to get me to conform to that yet again. And play into this narrative of he’s an inspiration. So be just be an inspiration to everybody. No, I don’t want to be, I want to give voice to people that are hurting, and who feel the effects of media representations that we didn’t even bother to involve them in the creative process, that have to live through this world, knowing that they’re seen in a certain way. So it really does not move me to make one more representation that makes able bodied people feel better.

Emily Ladau
And to top it all off, we’re often left out of hashtag movements that are wider.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, #MeToo movement.

Emily Ladau
Perfect example. Yeah. And so then when we try to insert ourselves in those conversations, you’re often told to go away there, too. So it’s like, how do you even find your home?

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, and you were even all lives matter in, in other hashtags. You know, we’re all suffering. It’s like, yeah, however, we’re not, I’m not saying that we’re not, but we just need to pay attention to this intersection of identity that is being ignored. Even so people try to shut us down.

Kyle Khachadurian
And also, like, you probably have your own hashtag too, like, just look for it. You know, whichever group you’re in.

Emily Ladau
I mean, I’m just gonna say though, like, hashtag white men.

Kyle Khachadurian
I mean, well, I’m sorry, I should have I should have had an asterisk at the end of my sentence. I didn’t.

I meant everybody but that

Well, You know,

Imani Barbarin
Men’s rights…

Kyle Khachadurian
Oh f*** those people, f*** those people.

Oh, there is there is, MGTOW. That’s a real thing. men go their own way. Look, yeah, you’re not going to know this. Because you’re not a dude on the internet. But that’s a real thing. It’s exactly what you think it is.

Is it marks on the side of the street. Like, what?

What? Where are they going?

Who the f*** knows, man, I’m not. I’m not in that. I don’t know where they’re going.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, hashtags can definitely go either way. That’s for sure. They can either be really, really empowering. Or they can just be a place where a bunch of awful horrible trolls all come together.

Kyle Khachadurian
Just stir up fascism on the internet. Yeah, it’s fine.

Emily Ladau
But I guess like, that’s kind of the thing about social media in general, right? Like it can be used for incredible good and incredible evil.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, it is. It’s frightening. Because, you know, you it’s like a fine line. Because every, all these platforms are like, which free speech free speech. But it’s not just free speech. You know, people are being radicalized many different ways online. And using, you know, the same hashtag I use to bring people to other people apart. So it’s scary, in some ways,

Emily Ladau
it is really scary. I was reading an article in The Atlantic about how Instagram is really where a lot of hatefulness and conspiracy theories are taking life. Apparently, there’s like #QAnon and on which I don’t know anything about.

Kyle Khachadurian
Oh, my God. That’s, that’s for a different day, Emily. We’ll have a day for that.

Emily Ladau
But But apparently, so like, this is how it starts. I was reading an article, a kid found the hashtag, became curious, followed more Instagram accounts about it and suddenly became a convert to this way of thinking. And so, I mean, there’s a dark side to hashtags. It’s unfortunate, but there is.

Kyle Khachadurian
This is why people still believe in Flat Earth. Okay, this is like, you can’t, but you’re right, you’re absolutely right. For every good hashtag, there’s like five s*** ones

Imani Barbarin
again, to another one of those deep dives that like, you’ll have to come up for air and like visit a priest.

Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah, that’s a rabbit hole, Emily.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, I guess that’s a rabbit hole that is it for another day, or that I will never go down. But, um, I mean, I just think it’s worth pointing out that, you know, the same things that can be used positively can also be used negatively, unfortunately. But I think that actually raises a really cool point Kyle that we were talking about preparing for this podcast.

Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah.

Emily Ladau
Like how the negative can also become the positive in some ways?

Kyle Khachadurian
Yeah, exactly. Like a #TacoTrucksOnEveryCorner, #NeverthelessShePersisted. Even #100OutOf100 that we brought up earlier. Those are all examples of where, you know, negative or negative sounding things were spun in the exact opposite direction by the people for whom it affected to prove the opposite point. And I… me and Emily, were like, Oh, we should talk about that. I don’t know. To me, that’s really neat, because it just shows the power of community when it all comes together on a place like Twitter. And also that there’s like no word for that phenomenon. So I think we should make one saying,

Imani Barbarin
Hashtagify.

Kyle Khachadurian
There you go. This is this is why she’s the hashtag queen.

Emily Ladau
Imani is the social media queen. I mean, just really,

Kyle Khachadurian
with, that’s going to be a hashtag that we use when we promote this episode is #HashtagQueen.

Imani Barbarin
Thank you so much.

Emily Ladau
Oh, my God.

Imani Barbarin
Like I didn’t even like Twitter in the beginning, I was just like, what is this thing, and I started my profile like 2009. And I didn’t really start to me until like 2013. But for some reason, that same profile the entire time.

So Twitter is fairly new in my life. It’s only been maybe five years since I started tweeting earnestly.

Emily Ladau
I started my account in 2013. But it was only because I was doing an internship program. And it seemed like all the cool kids were on social media and all of the organizations were on social media. And not just like a personal Facebook. And I was like, Oh, my God, I guess I have to do this. So, you know, I

Imani Barbarin
Started getting involved

Emily Ladau
yeah, I mean, I just did it because I thought it was the thing I was supposed to do. I followed a couple of disability organizations. And I was like, all right, what do I do now? And then, all of a sudden, it just became this thriving place of activism and commiseration and understanding and education and also a swamp full of trolls, but like,

Imani Barbarin
And I think I think we need to give credit to, you know, Alice Wong, Gregg Beratan, and Andrew Pulrang, who started #CripTheVote which really kind of put disability online activism on the map, um, during the election, not that people aren’t doing beforehand, but they really got a lot of national attention for the work they were doing with disability and voting.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, I think that that might be like one of the original disability hashtags that I remember having not only virality, but staying power.

Kyle Khachadurian
Also, the real world impact that you were mentioning earlier, too.

Emily Ladau
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like moving your activism off of Twitter and into the actual voting process?

Imani Barbarin
Exactly.

Emily Ladau
And yeah,

Imani Barbarin
It got legislators to pay attention.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, that’s a really good point. Thank you for bringing that up. I think the problem is, at this point, there’s so many hashtags, that keeping track of all of them in our minds has become a challenge. So I’m glad that you brought up #CripTheVote, because that is definitely at the top of my list for some of the most impactful work. But I think that also kind of gave rise to conversations within the disability community about slacktivism, which I think something that we need to talk about when we’re talking about hashtags. I mean, I can’t count how many times I’ve heard the argument that if your activism is online, then you’re a slacker.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah. And it’s such an ableist argument that disabled people can be change makers from behind their phones or computers. When we’re really driving a lot of the conversation online. I feel like disabled people, and black women, like if we were to team up together, we would rule the internet like, and we drive these conversations forward, we influence change.

And it’s not, we’re not slackers at all. There are people that put hours of work into this into hashtags, and it to movements and conversations, and making sure that people feel heard hours, hours every week. It’s almost… For some it’s almost like their full time job. So it’s not slacktivism at all.

Emily Ladau
I mean, you went hard. If I think what was it? #OneForSeven? Yeah, one thing you talk about that?

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, so for those who don’t know, there’s a young boy named Seven Bridges, who unfortunately, committed suicide, because he was bullied based on both his race and his disability, he wore a colostomy bag, and was driven to do this horrible thing to himself. And as somebody who, you know, almost didn’t make it for the exact same reasons.

With my own disability, I feel like it’s my duty to kind of give voice to disable black people who are not really seem to be in the media just yet, or as widely. So I started #OneForSeven, because there had been a hashtag called #BagsOutForSeven, which address the ableism he experienced, but not the racial implications of it. And so I really got a lot of disabled black people to contribute and to send in videos to me, and I created like this video thing, you’re not alone. And a lot of these disabled black activists had messages of the same kind. So it was really important to me, because these are kids that feel completely isolated, not just by their disability, overall, by their disability in the black community, and then the race in the disability community. And there’s in situations where they feel like they’re the only one and they wanted to let them know that they’re not, not at all we see you, we have felt the same pain you’re feeling, and you can make it out of it.

Emily Ladau
And that was so much more than just a hashtag. I mean, you know, the video that you put together to really emphasize that people are not alone to put that human face behind the hashtag. I mean, that’s powerful. And so I mean, if I here was the exact opposite of slacktivism, that’s it.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, I you know, we take me some work you know it could take me… I’m editing the video, adding subtitles, so… but it was something I don’t mind doing. Because I know is such an important topic to talk about.

Emily Ladau
The amount of unpaid labor for disabled people do creating content on social media is unreal. I know that’s a topic change from #OneForSeven, but I really, I hope people will go watch that video.

Imani Barbarin
I really do it’s pinned on my profile. And I haven’t taken it down and I won’t take it down.

Emily Ladau
Oh yeah. Good. I’m glad it’s still pinned. But we can also link it too but yeah, for sure.

Imani Barbarin
And it’s a lot I work 40 hours a week for my day job. And I feel like I work like another 40 doing just activism. So I don’t do two things. I don’t walk in a straight line and I don’t sleep so.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, I mean Kyle and I do this podcast largely unpaid and unsupported. I mean, for us, it’s it’s one of those things where we see a void and we want to fill it and I think that’s what happens online.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, you do because it matters not because, you know, it’ll give you money or anything so I it’s much to my parents detriment like they really don’t like the idea that me just going into things with the expectation I won’t be paid. It bothers them like you need money! You have actual life to live and bills to pay and student loans. So but I don’t really go into things with the expectation that somebody will pay me even though I know that I really should.

Emily Ladau
I think we all need to work on that.

Imani Barbarin
We really do. We need to get like a conference the other be like you need to start demanding what you’re worth.

Emily Ladau
Disability empowerment conference, but not the cheesy kind.

Imani Barbarin
Oh yeah. like whoa, no matching t-shirts. Everybody just come as they are. You know,

Emily Ladau
Although I will say we did the matching t-shirt thing and I felt pretty good about it.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, I really liked that photo from Hannah. Hannah Sawyer. For those who don’t know, it’s like the body is worthy movement and that’s the picture that I was in the picture that went viral of me. I’m wearing that t-shirt. So I will tweet that out once she gets a link to selling those.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, they’re another #ThisBodyIsWorthy. I mean,

Imani Barbarin
yeah. So

Emily Ladau
yes, so much good on hashtag disability, Twitter, which is also a hashtag.

Imani Barbarin
It’s really meta,

Emily Ladau
It is

Kyle Khachadurian
My God.

Emily Ladau
Although I have to be very, very real with you. And I’m ashamed to admit that. I did not even think to look up #DisabilityTwitter. I just thought disability Twitter was a concept that had no hashtag to it. I just thought it was a series of hashtags, not a hashtag in and of itself. I like just discovered this last week.

Imani Barbarin
I thought the same thing about black Twitter for a while and then I was like, Oh, no, this is the actual hashtag, you know, and disability orders to kind of the same thing where you know the actual bookmark to that conversation.

Emily Ladau
Okay, but is there #BlackDisability Twitter?

Imani Barbarin
Not yet!

Emily Ladau
You’re welcome. I get I get a portion of the proceeds from this. I’ll donate it right back to like Black Lives Matter or something. But just I just, you know,

Imani Barbarin
I’ll give you exactly 50% of my unpaid labor.

Emily Ladau
Great. Oh my God, thanks.

Imani Barbarin
You’re welcome.

Emily Ladau
I want those exposure dollars.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah. Give me some that exposure stuff.

I just can we just say like, I’m so sick of being paid in exposure.

Emily Ladau
We did an episode on this recently, where we had been asked to work with an organization. And they approached us and then when we were like, okay, you can pay us they were like, Nope, no we can’t.

Imani Barbarin
Especially when you consider, like, subminimum wage and disabled labor issues and the fact that disabled people will be not paid. That’s, that’s gross.

Kyle Khachadurian
They were disability organization to like, you know, they know better. You know they knew better.

Imani Barbarin
That is the worst!

Kyle Khachadurian
It was complete horse****

Emily Ladau
They’re the worst offenders!

Kyle Khachadurian
It was complete horse****. Oh, yeah, you’re right. You know what, you’re right. Emily, they are.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, but I mean, I, I do think that the conversation of knowing what you’re worth is a conversation in and of itself, but it is so relevant to hashtag culture and to online activism. Because we do all of this work of educating for free.

Imani Barbarin
And, so now that I’ve, like, I’ve done some a lot of exposure from all the hashtags that I do. And now when people have started demanding my labor, like, help me with this, I’m like, you know I have an actual job to like, you know, like, I agree. Yeah. You know, people have asked me to provide resources for their paper, or give them advice on A, B, or C issue. I’m like, Well, if you’re gonna pay me for my time that they’re like, well, aren’t you an activist I’m like yeah, but I still have bills.

Emily Ladau
So yeah, my favorite thing lately has been, can you just read this thing for me? Or can you just answer these 25 questions via email for the paper that I have to write that’s due tomorrow at 10am?

Kyle Khachadurian
It’s only 25 questions.

Emily Ladau
Like, are you kidding me? Like, no!

Imani Barbarin
If you give me more than five, I’m already overwhelmed. Like, if you give me one of five and no time to mentally prepare to answer them, I’m already overwhelmed. Like, it’s too much for me. And so now I’m like, it’s I’m trying, I try not to ignore people, you know, people are really trying trying to reach out to me, but at the same time, it’s a lot of requests for just, you know, no. And I feel like people are becoming deliberate when either I say no, or if I don’t answer them in time. Like, I don’t have the time to answer you right now. I’ll answer what I can answer you.

Emily Ladau
I think a really good lesson that I learned from another activist who does a lot on Twitter, Blair Imani, not not the same Imani that we’re talking to.

Imani Barbarin
Blair Imani is a good friend of mine.

Emily Ladau
So Blair Imani, is fantastic. And she has an FAQ page on her website that she refers people to, every single time someone asks, a repeat of the same question. And she’d already gotten 20 times in the last hour.

Kyle Khachadurian
That’s a really great idea.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, it actually went viral didn’t and she said that. She’s retweeted it so many times. People are just like, hey I read your FAQ page, you know?

Emily Ladau
Yeah. And so I feel like, because we’re constantly doing this work of educating my initial reaction to people now is like, just google me with the phrase that you’re trying to find out. And you’re probably going to find something that I wrote about it tweeted about it, siad about it in an interview like

Imani Barbarin
it all of our pages have search functions, I just want to let people know. And we do tag things like, so. Make sure that it’s easy to access if you want it.

Kyle Khachadurian
Yep.

Emily Ladau
Kyle is our search engine optimization dude, he’s the one who handles all that stuff.

Imani Barbarin
Teach me your ways, sir

Kyle Khachadurian
I will. And I am but not for free. No, for you. No I, I can help you, though. If you if you need some, just, email me.

Emily Ladau
There’s a big difference to me, between disabled people helping disabled people. And I don’t mean, like, do the work for me. I mean, like exchanges of knowledge

Kyle Khachadurian
that that’s true. That’s true. But also like, to that point, though, like, if I if I really like believe in what you believe in, like, I probably want to pay you like, I will never ask anyone for like a friend discount. It’s like, No, no, tell me what the number is. And I’m supporting your business.

Imani Barbarin
And then, you know, if you are if you’re somebody that wants to know somebody price, and they’re really close to you, if you can’t afford it, just say be like, I’m gonna wait until I can afford this. You know, let them know that you still want to support their work, but you still want to pay them full price for their labor.

Kyle Khachadurian
Absolutely.

Emily Ladau
I mean wouldn’t it be nice if we all got paid full price for our labor? And that some disabled people weren’t still being paid subminimum wage and that people valued what disabled people did and said, just, you know, some wishful thinking here.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah, I mean, well, even just with the Oscars, there was like two… there’s almost like this dichotomy of what happened at The Oscars were disabled people who are putting together swag bags that are valued in the thousands are being paid 18 cents an hour. Meanwhile, you know, Selma Blair is on the red carpet. And she’s with a cane, which is excellent. But there’s like, two sides to this story. And it is really emblematic of the disabled. struggle, you know, on the one side, you have people looking into this life and saying, what an inspiration, it’s so exciting. And then the other side, you have, the more day to day reality of people who don’t have that type of wealth. were being paid below the minimum wage to put together you know, this these symbols of wealth and capitalism. So it’s, yeah, it’s very upsetting.

Emily Ladau
Yeah, I’ve been struggling with that too. Because it’s like, we are basically putting this beacon of privilege on a pedestal. And that doesn’t deny the fact that Selma Blair does have a disability. But just that there’s this huge difference between celebrating your thin rich white, privileged, formerly able bodied body,

Imani Barbarin
you know, yeah, and the question really big for us to not only you know, we’ll see what walk the red carpet again is will she be able to get work again? You know, if she gets work with a pair, commiserating with what her her experience is? That’s the real question.

Emily Ladau
And I mean, this goes back to you and other hashtag that you created again, hashtag #HashtagQueen. #DisTheOscars

Imani Barbarin
Yeah. #DisTheOscars was a conversation during Oscars night talking about representation in the media, of disabled people and only 2.5% of all speaking roles on I believe it’s TV and film are disabled characters, and of those only a handful or played by disabled people. So when we talk about people being involved in the media, the quick implications with Selma Blair is, I don’t know if she’ll be able to get roles now. You know, she’s happy that she has a diagnosis. She’s not living into this idea of hating herself for her disability. That goes counter to every almost everything we see in the media about disability, currently. So I really question, I would really love to see her in new roles. I’d love to see her do another sequel to, Cruel Intentions, but uh, I don’t know if that’ll happen. But it’s really a question of whether or not she will be able to be employed now.

Emily Ladau
I want to see her in, like the 87th sequel to Legally Blonde, which is my movie that I secretly not so secretly love even though I know that may be the whitest thing I’ve ever said.

Kyle Khachadurian
Nope!

Imani Barbarin
Well, I feel like every disabled person has their own version of bend and snap so…

Emily Ladau
Oh my god, that’s so true. That’s so true. Bend and snap. Okay, this is not relevant. But so important.

The Disabled Bend and Snap. Oh my god.

#DisTheBendAndSnap.

Send us your videos.

Imani Barbarin
I also want like another one, like the accessible twerk. I want there to be like…Just for my satisfaction. I need an accessible twerk.

Emily Ladau
I’m ready. Someone send it to us.

Kyle Khachadurian
We’re gonna make it happen, Emily?

Imani Barbarin
Yes.

Emily Ladau
I can’t I’m not even gonna try to twerk.

Imani Barbarin
I tried to but I fell over. Remember?

Emily Ladau
Typical, but that’s typical disability stuff, though.

Imani Barbarin
Exactly.

Emily Ladau
Oh my gosh, I’m so before we drag everybody down this rabbit hole of bend and snap and twerking… So, Kyle, and I like to do something at the end of every episode where we give a final takeaway, something that we want to leave our listeners with, as they sort of digest what we’ve been talking about. So do you have something that you’d like to leave with our listeners about hashtag culture and hashtag activism and the use of hashtags in the disability community? What is it that you would leave people with?

Imani Barbarin
Hm? What should I say about hashtag culture and disability? Um, I would say that hashtags are deeply important to disabled people wanting to form community with one another, wanting to feel understood about the experiences that they have. A lot of times, we’re not believed among our able bodied peers about some of the things that we face. But disabled people will be there and say, I have been through that too. I understand what you’re going through, and you’re not alone. And that literally saves lives. I’ve always said, and will continue to say the disability community saves lives. And it’s very important, especially online, where people are isolated and scared. So I, I would say, ignore the tools. Ignore the people that say that none of this works. And really tune into what disabled people are saying, and I just want to let disabled people know that you matter. And I hear what you’re saying. And I will always be there listening.

Emily Ladau
That’s true, she’s a good listener can confirm.

Imani Barbarin
Aw

Emily Ladau
Yeah, but I mean, really, I couldn’t have said it better myself. I think that having that safe place to go. Although it can be fraught with a lot of landmines and trolls. At the end of the day, a hashtag and Twitter can still be a safe place to go, Facebook can still be a safe place to go, Instagram where you can find those connections and that solidarity and I think that’s something that we can take away from the value of social media is what it can do. To bring disabled people together. So that’s that’s my final takeaway. Kyle, it looks like you’re gonna get the last word.

Kyle Khachadurian
I don’t want the last one. Oh, come on. You’re gonna have any follow up with that. You always do this to me. You always do this to me. You have to Yeah, very cool. People speak first, and then you’re a cool person. And then it’s my turn and I’m just like, Hi, it’s me. I’m disabled.

Emily Ladau
I’m sorry, not sorry.

Kyle Khachadurian
No, I just I don’t really have one because Imani said everything that I could have possibly said way better than I could have possibly set it. And then we were pretty good too. So I’m just going to say that Imani is like a really baller guest, and this has been really really, really cool.

Emily Ladau
There you go. Good. Final takeaway.

Imani Barbarin
Baller guest. what about the accessible twerk? What up?!

Kyle Khachadurian
Oh, yeah, we’re gonna we’re gonna work on that.

Imani Barbarin
Yeah,

Emily Ladau
That’s my real final takeaway. Please send me your accessible twerking videos and you’re accessible bend and snaps, and just Just let me live in this moment and enjoy this,

Imani Barbarin
Please do

Thank you.

Emily Ladau
So on that note, this has been another episode of The Accessible Stall and Imani, can you tell the lovely people where they can find you?

You can call… You can find me on Twitter at Imani…

Kyle Khachadurian
People can call you. Here’s my number.

Imani Barbarin
I refuse, I get enough emails.

@Imani_Barbarin, or on my website crutchesandspice.com.

Emily Ladau
And if you want to find us the little old Accessible Stall, you can like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter or if you’d like to support us on Patreon even just $1 a month will help us make this amazing show with really baller guests accessible.

Kyle Khachadurian
This has been another episode of The Accessible Stall and might we all say you look good today.

Emily Ladau
Thanks so much for listening. Bye!

Kyle Khachadurian
Bye!

Imani Barbarin
Bye!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai